April 5, 2009

04/05/09: Dan Zamlen, 18, St. Paul, MN

Eighteen-year old Dan Zamlen, a freshman at the University of St. Thomas left a party hosted by classmates near the St. Thomas campus, reportedly upset about something. He was walking along Mississippi River Blvd near St. Clair Avenue on a trail. The trail had a grassy area next to it and then a wooded slope. He said he was headed to the University of Minnesota to meet some friends and was talking to friend Anna Chappuis on his cell phone who said she would pick him up. It was 2:30 a.m., and although she does not remember word for word what he said, Chappuis says she remembers hearing, "Oh my God. Help." before the call ended abruptly.

Friends and family tried looking for Dan and calling him repeatedly, getting his voicemail each time until about 8:30 a.m. when his phone went dead, which is when they called police.

Dan's body was found in the Mississippi River on May 1, 2009. Police believe he may have gotten too close to the river and slipped. The Ramsey County medical examiner's office ruled the death an accidental drowning and the St. Paul Police Department had closed the case. Police said they were still investigating how Dan, who was underage, got alcohol.


The Search for Dan

Search teams scoured the bluffs and banks of the Mississippi all morning and afternoon on May 1. Helicopters with infared flew overhead, water patrol checked along shore. Friends and family searched in culverts, brush, trees and alleys; and the University of St. Thomas organized a block by block, door-to-door search. Police did find a footprint leading away from the river, in the direction of the road, but they could not say for certain that it belonged to Dan.

Over the 27 days he was missing, more than 1,200 people searched for Dan Zamlen.

Parents express frustration before House of Representatives

Dan's parents testified before the MN House of representatives on 4/15/09 to help enact Brandon's Law, which would require law makers to take reports and investigate missing adults without delay when they are endangered.

During testimony, Dan's parents, Dale and Sally, reported frustration with the police for keeping searchers away from the bluff and also refusing to go search it because it was "too dangerous."

The Zamlen's feel that had the search been expedited, Dan could have been found quickly. Although Dan disappeared in a cell phone dead zone between a tower for Minneapolis and a tower for St. Paul, Dan was very technologically saavy and had an I-Phone. The I-Phone comes with a GPS "ping," making it easier to track one's location. This phone was paid for by Dan's parents and was in his mother's name, yet they were refused access to the information without a court order.

On Wednesday, May 6, 2009 Gov. Tim Pawlenty signed Brandon's Law, which would eliminate waiting periods when adults disappear under suspicious circumstances, or when young adults up to age 21 are reported missing under most circumstances.


Family belives it was an abduction

During the testimony before the House of Representatives, Dale said that he believed Dan was abducted. He said that although the Missing Persons Unit quickly zoned in on the river area, other facts seemed to rule out the river. He noted that 8 bloodhounds had searched the area on Tuesday (4/7) or Wednesday (4/8), and kept stopping in the same place, but did not go near the river. He also said that "side scanning sonar" had been used to search the river as well as infared. He also said that he works as an open pit miner and walked through the area, and did not feel that someone would easily slip there. And if they did, it would leave a mark. Nothing was in the area where Dan was found. He also felt that Dan's training as an Eagle Scout would have prepared him for an accident outdoors.


Dan Zamlen recovered from Mississipi River

On May 1, 2009 at 11:46 a.m, the body of Dan Zamlen was pulled from the Mississippi River near the Ford Motor Co. power plant in St. Paul. The Ford plant is down river from the area where Zamlen went missing on April 5. Workers at the plant found the body while cleaning grates that catch debris in the river near the power plant. A wallet found on the body and also a positive identification by Dan's parents, Dale and Sally Zamlen, confirmed that it was Dan.

The body was taken to the Ramsey County coroner's office. Police did not say whether there were signs of foul play. St. Paul Police spokesman Pete Panos said he believes Zamlen fell down the bluff and into the river.

The Ramsey County medical examiner's office later ruled the death an accidental drowning and the St. Paul Police Department closed the case. At the time, police said they were still investigating how Dan, who was underage, got alcohol.


New information released by police

On February 8, 2010, WCCO reported that the police had released new details to the media, including 400 pages of documents that supposedly detail that friends were worried about Zamlen months before he disappeared. Two friends say Zamlen was deeply conflicted about his own sexual orientation. In the initial police report and witness statements, friends say Zamlen talked about possibly killing himself the night he disappeared." Police say they released the information because the case was ruled an accidental drowning, and the investigation is now complete barring new evidence or information.

However, Dan's parents, Dale and Sally Zamlen, of Eveleth don't believe the case should closed. They cite numerous questions left unanswered in the case, such as how Dan Zamlen got down to the river from the bluffs without injury. St. Louis County Medical Examiner Dr. Thomas Uncini of Hibbing, who performed a second autopsy at the request of the family, said Zamlen did not have injuries that would suggest he tumbled or fell down the rocky or brush-filled slope like the one near where Dan Zamlen was last seen. “It is likely he drowned,"Uncini told the Duluth News Tribune, "but I feel the manner of death cannot be determined and requires more police investigation and/or access to existing police records." So the question that remains is how the case could be concluded when the additional police investigation recommended by the medical examiner was not done. "There are facts that the police didn’t look at; there are questions that are legitimate," said Sally Zamlen.

Also noted is the discovery of baseball with a smiley face on it as well as a sign marked with smiley face graffiti near the bluffs, evidence of a possible smiley face killer. Police say they were not able to connect the items to Zamlen's death, but the family has been in contact with the New York investigators looking into the smiley face killer theory.

In addition to the speculation raised by the graffiti, there appears to be varying accounts reported by witnesses who were at the party that night, including variations on what was said during Dan's final cell phone call. Many are left to wonder why the police are relying so heavily on witness statements when they appear to have so many holes.

Furthermore, a toxicology screening at the time of second autopsy uncovered the presence of Gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid [GHB] in Zamlen’s body. GHB is a powerful intoxicant, coined a "date rape drug," because it is easily slipped into someone's drink and can quickly lead to a loss of muscle control or even consciousness when combined with alcohol. While GHB can be produced naturally in the body, Uncini could not exclude the possibility that Zamlen had ingested it. Police reports indicate that Zamlen had been drinking, and while he may have brought his own alcohol to the party, there are indications that he could have purchased some alcohol at the party.

Police say they would not be able to charge hosts of the party in relation to Zamlen's underage alcohol use, because it would be difficult to prove that the hosts had provided him with any alcohol.

According to the Duluth News Tribune, "Sally Zamlen said she’s spent the past 10 months reading and re-reading the statements of her son’s friends and acquaintances. She’s searched the Internet seeking information on forensic pathology and stages of decomposition in a drowning victim. She’s offended that two female acquaintances of her son told police that he was suicidal because he thought he was gay and he told them he was going to kill himself that night. “My son can’t dispute that — he’s dead,’’ she said and added that there is no evidence that her son even talked to the women who made the claim. “I think he got in a vehicle and I personally believe he went into a diabetic coma, and whoever was with him thought he was dead and panicked,’’ she said. “That’s been my feeling since April 5. “I’m going to continue to go through this paperwork and continue to get more opinions and continue to gather more information,’’ she said.

Click here to read Sally Zamlen's response to the information released.


About Dan Zamlen

Dan was a A-student and a 3-star athlete. He ran 10 miles a day, often running to the Ford Plant, U of M, or State Capitol, and according to his father, had the heart rate of a marathon runner. His parents described him as having a "good head on his shoulders." He was an altar boy and catechism teacher, as well as an Eagle Scout. About a year ago, Dan suspected he had diabetes and went to the doctor; he found out he was a Type I diabetic. Being very saavy about technology, he decided to get an OmniPod insulin pump, which carried enough for a 3-day supply of insulin.

About 100 students and relatives gathered Friday evening (May 1) at St. John Vianney Seminary. Rev. William Baer said so much heart went into the search that it was hard to have it end this way.


Facts of Interest
Name/age: Dan Zamlen, 19
Hometown: Eveleth, MN
College: University of St. Thomas, St. Paul
Residence: Brady Residence Hall
Physical Description: 6’1,” 175 pounds, brown hair with blonde highlights, blue eyes, fair complexion
Last Seen: 4/5/09 3 a.m., intersection of St Clair and Mississippi River Blvd., wearing a dark blue and black zip-up fleece with a light blue Hollister polo, blue jeans and brown Dr. Marten shoes. Dan is a type 1 diabetic. He has an OmniPod which is a device to control his insulin. When his insulin has run out, the OmniPod will begin to beep quite loudly.
Recovered: 5/1/09, 11:46 a.m., Mississippi River near Ford power plant in St. Paul, MN.
Cause of death ruling: Drowning
Manner of death ruling: Accident

291 comments:

1 – 200 of 291   Newer›   Newest»
Concerned said...

This breaks my heart. When I opened the page and saw this latest case my heart sank and I gasped. I can't believe it. I really and truly hope they find him alive and well.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone heard whether or not Dan's cell phone has been found or the results of the bloodhound tracking they did today? (link)

I am really concerned that search and rescue was not sent until 4 pm Sunday. When my cousin didn't return from deer hunting when expected, they immediately sent all search and rescue units when they heard he was diabetic. They didn't say, "Oh, he's a 31-year old adult. There's no reason to treat him like a missing child." That's what this St. Paul police chief did, according to the press on Sunday. Very disturbing. I think in their haste to debunk any "Smiley Theorists," they've really stepped in it big time.

BoyintheMachine said...

Anonymous:

Since Dan Zamlen is an adult they have to get a court order to trace the location of the phone. (I assume if he was a minor a court order wouldn't be needed.)

The bloodhound tracking, from the last I read, was inconclusive. It stopped at the end or corner of a street and then they lost the scent.

What bothers me is that nearly every article has discreprencies in the reporting of Zamlen's last words. So we really don't know eactly what he said.

BoyintheMachine said...

Update: The search has gone cold for Dan Zamlen.

If by chance he fell into the river, then his body could be miles from he search areas. The currents were reported to be strong and the river swelled with spring rain/melt off.

Concerned said...

I don't know why but as I read the articles I thought this might be a hoax - that perhaps he faked this. I hate to even admit that. I guess for his sake and his families sake, let's hope it is a hoax and he is safe. Maybe it's a bit of wishful thinking on my part. :(

Lisa said...

To Boy In the Machine,

According to one local tv news report (Kare11.com), Anna, the friend who was on the phone with Dan does not remember verbatim what Dan said. Also, some reporters interviewed the friend directly, while others interviewed Dan's family or other friends who just relayed what Anna had told them. This likely accounts for the discrepancies in the reporting.

Concerned said...

A quote from a St. Paul Police Department spokesman regarding that discrepancy:


While some news reports have quoted Zamlen calling out and asking for help before the phone went dead,

Peter Panos, St. Paul Police Department spokesman, said investigators have heard “about three different versions” of how the conversation ended. Right now, he said, they have no evidence to indicate foul play was involved.

Anonymous said...

I am a very close friend of Dan and am really sick of the media twisting and skewing this story! In regards to his last words to Anna, it was a cry for help and that's it.
We had over 600 students out searching yesterday and continued out neighborhood search today. We have been putting all of our energy into bringing Dan home in time for his birthday tomorrow! I miss him so much and hope that all are keeping him in their prayers!

BoyintheMachine said...

Police Call Off Search For Dan Zamlen

“Police will continue to investigate Zamlen’s disappearance, but their day-to-day search won’t continue unless they get specific information about his possible whereabouts.”

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/Dan_Zamlen_Search_Suspended_Apr_7_2009

Anonymous said...

All these people are assuming that Dan fell in the river... Well being that I have now logged more then 20 hours as part of the search and rescue team, I can tell you that the authorities are pretty sure that he did NOT actually fall into the river. The bank has a steep slope, and there was snow on the ground. When police searched these banks (ranging about 5 miles in both directions) they found no evidence that the slopes had been touched, and it is nearly impossible for someone to fall (or even walk) down them without leaving significant evidence of their tracks. Wherever Dan is.... I doubt he is in the water. I just hope he's safe.....

BoyintheMachine said...

Anonymous:

I too hope he's found safe and sound.

But if he did fall into the river than the strong current and the swelling of the river via rain/melt-off could mean that his body is miles from the search area.

If we knew exactly what was said on the phone call then it *might* help us determine what happened.

Anonymous said...

If in the river, the body would not likely get past the Ford lock and dam, which is only a mile or so down stream.

Anonymous said...

while it is true that the current would have carried this young man down the river, it is also true that he couldn't have fell in without leaving small brush or small trees unharmed. the section of mississippi blvd that he was walking in is all grass, sidewalk and bike trail, and then a wooded area with wild grass and little trees and brush that go down the steep hillside to the water.
for all of his family and friends, our community is concerned for his wellfair and hopefull for his safety. this is a family's worst nightmare and we are praying for everyone involved

Anonymous said...

plus that whole steep area goes down to more land where i have mountain biked before, its not something you can just tumble into really. I would also like to know what the argument was about that his friends are refusing to reveal.

Anonymous said...

It's very unlikely that he fell into the river. I've hiked on those bluffs a lot and unless he was at water's edge and slipped in, he did not fall down the bank and land in the river. He would have been snagged on a small tree or in a crag. He would have been spotted by a chopper or sniffed out by dogs.

The only place he could fall directly in the water is from The Rock - a huge limestone platform that juts out over the water when the water is high. The Rock is at least 1/2 mile north of where he told his friends he was, and it's a major area landmark. He would have told them if he was there.

And if he did fall off the edge of rock, I doubt he would have had time to say, "Help!."

The cell phone cutting out could be a Smiley Face detail.

Miss. Blvd. is a very dark place at night. A few years ago a teenage boy was randomly shot down there late at night. It's not a cool place to recreate after dark.

The press has been very frustrating through this whole thing. If Daniel's friends don't want to cooperate with the press I understand that, but I hope they will cooperate with investigators and reveal details about what upset him and anything that may have been going on in his world in the days leading up to this.

Anonymous said...

I mentioned Smiley Face above, but I don't want to say I believe this is connected to other similar disappearances. I just think it's important for investigators to consider that they may be dealing with foul play after all. I haven't seen a press report that indicates police are allowing this possibility. Their inability to find Daniel is becoming suspicious especially considering the geography of that area as has been pointed out by others here.

Anonymous said...

Agreed on the limestone rock as the only place to really fall in the river, its called "the monument" around here and it is not very close to St. Clair as he said. Suppose he did simply fall in the river by accident he would have been found the very next day around here or in the Dam which is not too far down. There is no trace of him and the bloodhound stopped right at an intersection, by deduction i can only think that he voluntarily/involuntarily got into a vehicle

Anonymous said...

And if he vouluntary got in a vehicle - he wouldn't say help - or oh my god, or whatever he said. Plus since he was talking to the person driving to pick him up - he would say he was catching another ride. That only leaves one conclusion. He was taken invouluntary.

Anonymous said...

The fact that the message has been distorted is NOT the friends fault - it is the fault of the press. After talking to one of the girls myself, they said they were so worried and freaked out that it was impossible for them to understand what he was trying to say. On top of that, it was really windy that night and they were having trouble hearing him as is. They know they heard the words "Oh my God, Help!" and that was enough to make them panic and call police. Outside of that, do the exact words matter?

And as for the dispute at the party, it is REALLY not worth mentioning. It was nothing to cause any suspicion or further investigation.

Concerned said...

Well yes, the words do matter because it might clue investigators in as to what could have possibly happened. If he had said "I'm slipping" as had been reported by some press then it would lead to the possibility that he did in fact slip and possibly land in the river AND that foul play was not involved. If he just said "oh my God, help" then it would be open to interpretation as to what could have possibly happened - either accident or foul play. I just can't believe that the authorities are so convinced that it wasn't foul play. How could they know? In my mind they should treat this as foul play until it is proven otherwise - not the other way around. From all that I have read about this case and other missing person cases, the way authorities handle these types of cases is really disappointing. I know it must be difficult for them but it's just disappointing.

Anonymous said...

I was just down on the opposite side of the river. There's nice safe hiking trails at 38th and Mississippi River Blvd West in Minneapolis. There's a little path leading down from the bike trail at street level. St. Clair would connect with 38th if it spanned the river.

You can see the bluff clearly through the trees with binoculars and you can see people walking around over there. There are very few places where he could have slid down the bank into the river. There are too many trees.

An chopper with spotters could probably see everything they would need to see, and I don't buy their reluctance to put boats on the river. There are boats that could fight that current. It's not that bad. We're 4 days into this thing and they're still struggling with that bluff? Come on! There's not that much land area down there.

I'm starting to think like other people who believe he was probably abducted.

BatMan said...

You guys gotta figure by now that it was'Smiley face Murder Club'-
that gott'um or something similar?
Especially with his chillin last words-"Oh my,,gosh Somebody help"!

These are all one in the same, especially this gentelmans incident. Everything is standard
trademark,from I-94 to time & montht
Makes me recall the few yearz I spent driving Cab. An some of the stuff I hurd & scene. Where you
could see just how easy it could be
with all these drunken un-observant
care-free,colledge kids especially over their in St.Paul on Grand ave.,St. Claire, Snelling corners ect.
THATZ WHAT MAKES ME THINK A CAB DRIVER JUST MIGHT PLAY A HUGE PART IN THIS...
That and a Knock-Out needle?

Anonymous said...

does anyone wonder if the cops are closer to these cases then we think. why does it seem like these cases are ruled accidents so quickly. The St. Paul police seem to be dragging their feet in the search for Dan. Are they covering up for someone or are they the SF gang? Think about it, if you were drinking a a cop approached you and cited you with public intoxication you would get into the car with out a fight - esp if you were underage. Mrs Jenkins said her son was driven around in a white van. Hmmm in Minneapolis cops drive white cars and vans.

Jessa25_FL said...

I encourage everyone to go here :

http://surfdete.ipower.com/patterns.html

You'll be soo glad you did. You wouldn't believe all the info there.


Here is a snippet of the last paragraph on that page :
(and I'm warning you this is some freaky stuff)


Todd Geib was from Ravenna where he once attended high school, but his body was found in a rural lake northeast of town, close to a party he attended. Todd's last known contact was at 12:50 AM when he made a call to say "I'm in a field", then the call abruptly ended. This is similer to the case of missing Marshall, Minnesota student Brandon Swanson, who has not been heard from since his call also abruptly ended. It is possible that the killers are using cell phone jammers to keep a victim from making or completing a call.


Also go here to read the last 5 to 7 pages and ignore what the topic originally was cause we have all strayed from it

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message542174/pg34

You'll also be glad that you checked this site out as well.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Jessa25_FL,

That website is a joke.

There's no evidence at all to support his theories, and on top of that he's one of those people that think a satanic cult is at work.

Also, many of the pictures of graffiti on his site are actually normal gang graffiti.

BoyintheMachine said...

I just wanted to point out that there is no indication that Dan Zamlen's disappearance is connected to the smiley face killers.

So I would personally ask people to please refrain from acting as if he was the latest victim.

Currently there are people linking deaths that have little to nothing in common with the so-called 'profile' of the victim. Even at sfkillers.com there is a post about a guy that was found dead out of water, on land. That's a big clue that it shouldn't be included. Then you have the crazy commentors who try to link deaths such as a guy who burned to death in a car. How in the heck can such a death be linked to the other drowning deaths?

It's all just crazy talk, so please don't speculate until actual evidence is uncovered.

Jessa25_FL said...

Boy in the machine or whatever your dumb name is....are you serious?!
Say what you want about the site.Really say what you want cause I will not be coming back here again and I will be telling as many as I can,not to come here.
Dan Zamlen phone was cut off.
He was taken just a mile(give or take a little) away from Gannon Rd and everyone know that the sfkillers are into word games and we all know who Det. Gannon is,RIGHT?!
You do the math.
You must be simple minded.
Now go ahead and call me whatever you want but I won't be here to read it.

Concerned said...

Whoa. If you're going to leave comments like that Jess25, then I'm glad you're not coming back. Boy in the Machine was simply stating an opinion - of which just like you he has the right to do. And how do you know that Dan Zamlen was taken a mile away from ANYWHERE??? Or that the SF Killer or Killers like to play "word" games?? That is purely speculation and theory not based on any FACTS. Very odd.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Jessa25_FL

This is one of the best blogs with regards to the posting of similar cases. One of the things that makes it so good is that the owner doens't delve into wild speculation, but rather presents the facts. Some of the people leaving comments may dive into speculation, but the blog owner doesn't.

If you want to leave and never come back, that's your choice. Just don't badmouth this blog.

auburn_eyes84 said...

Willie Jacobson drown in Ithaca, NY on April 27, 2008. It was reported that Jacobson was from Minnesota. Two days after Jacobson's death, the New York Daily News reported, "A spray-painted smiley face with a taunting grin could be the disturbing signature of a nationwide network of killers who target promising college students" and "They're laughing at the police".

The very next suspected Smiley Face case was a college student from Marshall, Minnesota named Brandon Swanson. Strangely, his car was found abandoned near the town of Taunton, even though he told his parents that he was in a different county at the time his call abruptly ended. Notice the cryptic connection between the "taunting grin" and "laughing at the police" quotes from the newspaper. Taunt the police (Taunton-Marshall).

Josh Snell was last heard from on the same day as Geib, but about an hour later. Snell called a friend on the evening that he drown to say that he thought that unknown people were following him and that he might be in trouble with the police. Local police confirmed that they had no contact with Snell, so this may have been someone impersonating an officer.


CAMP:

COLUMBUS, OH - Anthony Luzio Jr, 25 (07-04-2005)
AMES, IA - Jacob B. Hobson, 27 (07-19-2005)
MOORHEAD, MN - Patrick Kycia, 19 (09-23-2005)
POTSDAM, NY - Albert Campbell, 22 (10-07-2005)

The very last victim in the CAMP word has the name Campbell. The Smiley Face killer has left repeated similer partial names in his clues. This is more evidence that the killer sometimes stalks his victims and even knows their names.


NEMEC:

NEW LONDON, MN - Daniel Lee Newville, 18 (08-01-2002)
EAU CLAIRE, WI - Craig Burrows, 23 (09-29-2002)
MINNEAPOLIS, MN - Chris Jenkins, 21 (10-31-2002)
EAU CLAIRE, WI - Michael Noll, 22 (11-06-2002)
COLLEGEVILLE, MN - Joshua Cheney Guimond, 21 (11-09-2002)

The most famous person with this name is actor Corin Nemec. In 1989, he played the roll of Steven Stayner in the movie I Know My First Name Is Steven. The movie was based on the true story of an abducted child. In real life Steven's brother (Cary Stayner) became a serial killer. Corin Nemec talks about Cary Stayner in the book The Yosemite Murders. Nemec is also mentioned in the book I Know My First Name Is Steven, which talks about the abduction as well as about Cary Stayner's murders. The NEMEC word was being formed at the exact same time that Stayner was on trial for murder and making big headlines in the newspapers. Nemec's character fits the basic profile of a Smiley Face victim. (young, white, male, abducted, drank alcohol)

Here are just a few of the many Cary Stayner newspaper headlines from around the time of the NEMEC word deaths:

Death Penalty Recommendation
New York Times October 10, 2002

Jury Finds Killer Is Sane
New York Times September 17, 2002

YOSEMITE KILLER SANE, JURY SAYS
St. Paul Pioneer Press (MN) September 17, 2002

Guilty In Yosemite Murders
New York Times August 27, 2002

MOTEL WORKER CONVICTED IN THREE DEATHS/YOSEMITE VERDICTS MAY BRING DEATH PENALTY
St. Paul Pioneer Press (MN) August 27, 2002

Mental impairment key to jury verdict on Stayner-Deliberations may begin this week in triple-murder case.
San Francisco Chronicle August 21, 2002

Trial opens in slaying of Yosemite sightseers-Defense says Stayner killed them after mental breakdown
San Francisco Chronicle July 16, 2002

Another strange thing about the NEMEC word victims is that a police bloodhound was tracking the same scent in both the Chris Jenkins case as well as the Josh Guimond case, which seems to indicate that the same person's scent was found at both locations, even though these were in different cities and a number of miles apart. The Jenkins death was ruled a homicide.


The San Francisco Connection

Clues that point to San Francisco seem to be a frequent pattern in the Smiley Face case. These include:

-A Gary Snyder poem about the deaths of young white males was left at the creek in Duluth where two young white male college students died. This poem was originally published in August 1968 in San Francisco. This is just a few months before the Zodiac Killer would go on a murder rampage around San Francisco.

-Multiple Smiley Face death locations had graffiti that was similer to the Zodiac Killers drawings that he sent to various people in San Francisco.

-Three murder victims of Cary Stayner had rented their car in San Francisco and were supposed to fly back to San Francisco, but were murdered instead. This is related to the NEMEC clue as explained above in the Word Patterns section.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: auburn_eyes84,

Whoa....all you had to do is post a link.

Besides, that's from the same website.

Where's the evidence.

The problem is that people are linking all kinds of stuff together without having any way of distinguishing which are correct and which aren't.

Besides, the most popular theory with regards to the smiley face killers is that of a Satanic Cult, and I can tell you right now that belief is going to prevent officials such as law enforcement and FBI from ever taking it seriously. There has never been any evidence presented for the existance of a widespread satanic conspiracy.

Even Kristi Phiel believes there is an 'anti-Christian' motivation, something again which I believe there to be no proof of.

auburn_eyes84 said...

Att Boy in the Machine

Then why are they taking only the religious necklaces?

Concerned said...

Hi Auburn Eyes,

Thank you for posting the information. I actually read through it at the original site - the link posted by Jess25. Again, this is just one person's idea/theory but it is not based on fact. Anyone can take the same information and create patterns and theories to match what they believe. It's like looking at an ink blot and creating a pattern in your mind - some people can look at an ink blot and see a butterfly while someone else can look at the same ink blot and see a cat. As an example, look at the fact that when he (the author of that site) states that one of the words spells COP. In reality the word that is spelled is COPE - he left off the E from East Dubuque - it's on his list but he doesn't highlight it. He only highlights the first 3 letters. He saw the word COP because it matched the theory in his mind that the word was connected to the fact that those victims had a family member that was a police officer.

Don't get me wrong, it's interesting but be careful not to take someone's belief and make it a fact.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: auburn_eyes84,

You seriously need to stop copying and pasting and learn to post links. Your comments are taking up a ridiculous amount of room.

Do you know what evidence is?

Right now there is a lot of speculation but little to know evidence.

We do not know that the supposed smiley face killers hold a rare poet's work to have some special meaning.

We also do not know that the supposed smiley face killers are taking Christian themed necklaces.

Dr. Gilbertson spoke out against the whole necklace thing on his last media appearance:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/03/27/lkl.smiley.face.killings.long.cnn

It's called, 'jumping the gun'. You don't start an investigation knowing all the answers.

m valdemar said...

4/10/09:

local information:
a dog led searchers away from the riverbank toward a neighborhood, presumably across the road that runs within a few feet of the bank. searchers are going house-to-house inquiring.
but there are no houses very close to the river bank. they are across 2 streets from the bank.

i have no idea how likely-or unlikely- not finding the body is when someone falls down the bank.

Anonymous said...

Things just don't add up with this boy going missing. I originally thought since he left the party angry that perhaps he was followed by a couple of older boys with whom he had argued. Maybe he saw something at the party (drug use?) which upset him. I would bank on him being followed by some older boys at the party by car. I strongly believe all the missing clues lead back to the party goers. Gut feeling it has nothing to do with "Smiley" even though the circumstances are so similiar.

Anonymous said...

st. thomas parties really are not like that its a very nice school. i doubt he was jumped by anyone in the area especially from the party. I feel more the argument was maybe some girl did not want to have sex with him or maybe he saw someone he liked with another guy or something like that. they honestly dont expect to find him in the bluffs after 5 days do they..

Anonymous said...

I went to a "nice" school and was shocked and surprised at what happened at parties. I was pretty niave. He was an excellent high school student and seemed to be experimenting in that he drank alcohol knowing he was under age and diabetic. Not uncommon at all for an 18 y/o.Sure, maybe it was a girl he was upset about but the fact he had a run-in with someone at the party just makes me suspicious of the party goers. And who knows who was there...non-students etc. Seemed large enough that his friends didn't even know he left. Just a strong gut feeling. My prayers do go out to him and the family for a safe return.

Anonymous said...

I don't think he's at the bluff...think he got into a car with the wrong people with whom he had had an arguement with at the party.These were the same guys he was trying to get away from at the party and so he left.They left the party looking for him and when he saw them it scared him...hence his comments before the phone disconnected.I hope they return Dan safely. Alcohol can make people do crazy things.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone confirm what exactly was said during his last known phone call? Some sources report he said "oh my god. I'm slipping" and others "oh my God help!" This seems like an important discrepancy. Perhaps someone should get the word out about what was really said. I think it is unlikely he would slip of the edge near the trail and leave no trace.

Anonymous said...

i go to st thomas. and this is from a girl who knows the girl on the phone:

he never said slipping. she was coming to get him and said watch for my headlights and he said he saw them but it was not her yet and then he said ANNA oh my god Help

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your quick response on what was said on the phone. I don't see how the police investigating this could be so certain foul play was not involved. It would seem to be a very real possibility.

Anonymous said...

There is no way to slip in to the river. It is not possible except at one location that is not close to Saint Claire Street. He said "oh my God" when he realized the headlights were not Anna's but were the 2 older guys at the party who went looking for Dan after the argument. They didn't know Dan is diabetic......his sugar soaring after consuming alcohol.
I pray the guys come forward and also pray for Dan's family. So many care for this family and Dan.He is a great guy.

Anonymous said...

Things are just not pointing to a drunken accident. His diabetes and drinking certainly could cause someone to run into trouble walking near a bluff, but if he had his head together enough to make a phone call while walking and to not sound obviously impaired to the person on the other end of the line it seems doubtful he would have taken the path necessary to find oneself falling into the river.

Anonymous said...

The comment about the guys at the party is one not voiced before. I heard there was an argument but that it was insignificant. Really? Arguments at a college party late at night might be about something small but can easily get ugly. Have these guys been identified?

Anonymous said...

No, they haven't even been identified as being at the party. It was only one guy he had the argument with but this guy had a friend that took his side and both were involved in leaving by car to find Dan. I don't think these 2 guys meant the harm they caused, They didn't know he was on an insulin pump and had used a lot of insulin to counter act the sugar in the alcohol. Dan was not very intoxicated but slightly disoriented from all the sugar in the alcohol. Disoriented enough to think it was appropriate to go visit a frind at the U of MN at 4:00 in the morning. Pray for him...

Anonymous said...

I pray he is OK. If what is being said about a confrontation is true I hope the police have been notified. The theory about two guys from the party chasing after him seems like a plausible lead. Who knows what took place. An accident followed by a cover up? Maybe he was left at an area hospital as John Doe? Thanks to all those who have been out searching.

Anonymous said...

while the argument about two guys is reasonable i dont see any st thomas parties going this route. an argument at st thomas would be someone getting mad at someone for spilling on their new north-face and resulting in a slap-fight but not enough to go hunt someone down. plus all his freinds said they did not notice him leave.. i have been in arguments before and everyone instantly knows about it at the party and people take sides and everyone has someone back. it must have been minor if no one noticed him leave. I think the continuing missing college kid murder mystery scenario is more plausible

Anonymous said...

We don't even know if these guys of interest were St. Thomas students. It is so eerily similar to many of the missing person cases that it is easy to go that direction but by the odds it is the least likely possibility. I drive this route all the time in the day and I am having some difficulty understanding what his friend meant by follow the headlights. It doesn't seem like you would see headlights from very far unless they were across the river on 38th street or the parkway on the west side. If those are the headlights he followed that is big trouble.

Anonymous said...

The party goers need to speak up and tell all, every thing that happened and especially WHO was there. They are not responsible for other people's actions or for what they brought to the party. The truth will eventually come out.
Anna supposedly wanted Dan to see her headlights because she couldn't see where he was. Unfortunately, the headlights he saw were not Anna's but someone elses.
It would be nice if the worst thing that happened at a St. Thomas party or any college party was an upset over spilling on a North Face jacket. Unfortunately that is not the case and if this is all you've wittnessed count your blessings. This incident does not reflect on St. Thomas...it can happen anywhere.
I pray for the information needed to come out and the truth be told. Dan was a vulnerable adult in that he drank alcohol with diabetes. Pray for him.
And for people who said it was a hoax,Dan would not risk his life to play a game.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but I really question if Anna was driving down St. Claire street towards the river telling Dan to look for her head lights. First,if Dan was approached by another vehicle and abducted by the guys at the party he had argued with I question why Anna didn't see anything. It is a very short distance down St. Claire to the river where Dan was at.
Second, if Dan told her he was headed towards the river it would have been easy for her to find him. I live in the area and the entire path was quite short.
There are very very few vehicles at this time in the am especially on an early Sun. morning. The chance that Anna and an abductor were in the same spot would be very unlikely, and next to impossible for her to not see anything.
There is more to this story....way more...
I'm sure the 2 guys are scared because it was probably an accident. Chances are very slim he was dropped at a hospital as John Doe because the hospitals and jails have been checked already.
Let us pray that a particular person who knows what happened speaks up and relieves herself of the burden she is carrying.God Bless Dan and his family. You are are on many mins and in our hearts.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous, the one leaving comments abou the guys at the party driving after Dan Zamlen...

Please come forward with your identity and contact the police.

That's the only way people are going to take you seriously.

Afterall, Dan might still be alive and in need of desperate medical attention and the people who know things are just posting anonymously without actually going to the authorities.

I take that back, you should be able to contact the police anonymously, but you need to do something rather than just post it here on this blog.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous

"Let us pray that a particular person who knows what happened speaks up and relieves herself of the burden she is carrying.God Bless Dan and his family. You are are on many mins and in our hearts."

Are you implicating Anna?

This is weird, but I had a dream today while napping that she overdosed on sleeping pills and left a suicide note saying, 'It's my fault.'

Weird. I'm not accusing her of anything, but was wondering if that was what you were implying?

Anonymous said...

No, I'm not implicating Anna at all. I just have a strong gut feeling about things and think this is what happened. There is nothing to report to the police because it's a hunch-I have nothing factual. Many people have theories and this just happens to be mine. Whatever did happen will eventually be found out. In the mean time we can't help but to think of this guy missing his 19th B-day. It is all very tragic.

Anonymous said...

Ok this is getting totaly messed up!
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?
Who are the guys from the party?
Why aren't the cops interviewing them?
WTF
I would be totally Peed off If I was Dans parents!
What the heck with all the hush hush?
This STINKS of abduction!
MN Mom

Anonymous said...

I swear to God I will not ever let my sons go to college, too may fucked up people there!
Too much Drinking too much dishonesty!
What the Hell is going on at the schools?
Messed up people, so sick!
Kids should not, live without supervision! and YES these people under 25 are KIDS!!

Anonymous said...

"He said "oh my God" when he realized the headlights were not Anna's but were the 2 older guys at the party who went looking for Dan after the argument"

what? if someone, or more than one person, knows FOR SURE that he was being followed by 2 guys they need to tell the police. even if you don't know their names, tell the police anything you can remember/know at all about them. you wouldn't necessarily be incriminating them. if they are innocent they can be treated as possible witnesses.

if this is just your theory, you should probably state it as such so people don't get confused.

Anonymous said...

In all of my blogs about 2 older guys from the party theory I have included words as "a hunch", "maybe","I believe", "gut feeling" etc. Police detectives are very smart and can figure out what doesn't add up or make sense. They are seasoned with this exact type of scenario. To call them with "my strong gut feeling" would be a waste of time. They need facts...and I have a hunch they do not have all the facts and believe they already know this. Also, not everything is made public.
Anyway, when something happens so close to home it is hard to deal with and we all seek answers.
To the MN mom who fears colleges, I feel sad this incident has so effected you. I still believe most people in this world are good. But as the saying goes...does one bad apple spoil the whole cart? Depends on what you focus on.
I hope and pray Dan is found soon to end the agony for his family and all those that have been affected by this. God Bless

Anonymous said...

I have some questions about missing people. First, are there more college males than college females that go missing? Just wonder the stats. It seems from the news more white,male college drinkers go missing but I wonder if it's just shocking and more newsworthy?
Second,I have heard about a NYC retired detective linking all of the missing male college students as being taken by the "smiley face" killer. Is there any truth to this? It does seem odd that so many white, college boys who have been drinking disappear and it either goes unsolved or is said there is no fowl play. Is the smiley face killer some disgruntled man who was rejected by colleges so couldn't get an education?
Third, what are the chances Dan Zamlen can be found alive? Are there stats as far as time and finding someone alive or recovering a body?
And last,why don't the police suspect fowl play in this case? Seems there are red flags all over. He literally disappeared from a known location and still has not been found. Why is the disagreement at the party hush hush? Why was Anna so "freaked out" that she wasn't exactly sure what Dan's last words were on the cell phone if the disagreement was so "simple" and meaningless. Why was Anna freaked out anyway? She was just going to pick up her friend? Also, why did she go to pick him up if he was already half way home, especially if she had been drinking herself? This case seems very confusing like there is more to this than the media knows. Thanks to anyone who can answer my questions.

Lisa said...

This case seems so confusing because we really don't know anything 100% at this point--only that Dan is missing. Everything else is speculation.

1) If you take a look at the various missing persons clearinghouses by state, there does seems to be more males that go missing in this age range. However, I would qualify this statement by saying that I am no expert and have not done a statistical study to back this up.

2) The team of NYC detectives are highly skilled and have outstanding credentials. To date, they have examined 152 cases and have found links in at least 35 of them. Their work looks very promising. They believe there is a network of killers operating in separate cells across the U.S. It is still an open investigation, so they cannot release the details too early or it will jeopardize their chances of arresting anyone.

3) At this time, there is no evidence to support that Dan was abducted or harmed in any way. There are many possibilities of what happened to him, such as a) he went off somewhere and isn't aware that people are looking for him, b) he wanted to disappear, c) he had an accident of some sort d) became disoriented or had trouble due to his diabetes, e) he was abducted and/or met with foul play.

It certainly does not look good that he has been gone this long. However, there is no reason to give up hope. Missing people have turned up alive and well before.

4) I'm sure the police are open to any possibility. But there is really not enough to go on to launch a massive investigation. Perhaps the disagreement really was nothing and announcing the details of it would only embarrass Dan. And I have not gotten the impression that Anna was freaked out. It is possible that she couldn't hear him very well or wasn't paying that close of attention. She may have seemed a little panicked later when talking to the media. But by this point, she had reason to be panicking. Her diabetic friend was missing.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Lisa for answering my questions. It was helpful and thanks for the web site too.
The reason I thought Anna was "freaked out" was from an earlier post from a friend of Anna's.
I just can't imagine he would want to disappear and doesn't know people are looking for him. Everyone I talk to mentions it as it has been in the news and so many people are involved in the search.
The smiley face killer is too scary to even think about...but if a killer wants to get attention a white, male college student would certainly catch attention...but I'm not going there in my mind.
It would be so awesome if he showed up on Easter Sunday to celebrate with his family. That is my hope.We need to keep looking and not give up!

Anonymous said...

To: Boyinamachine

Oh my gosh, I read about your dream while napping and got shivers down my spine.I had a strange dream too about the whole thing with Dan missing. Do you know something more than the news tells us?

Anonymous said...

to the anonymous asking questions...Lisa already answered them well, but i have a little bit more to add:

3) at this point, it doesn't look good. even if Dan didn't fall in the river or was abducted, his diabetes would be a huge concern. the fact that he hasn't been heard from suggests that he wouldn't have enough insulin on him at this point to not be either in a coma or deceased.

4) police say they don't have any evidence to suggest foul play, but the thing is they don't have any evidence to suggest an accident or suicide either. they don't have ANY evidence at all. so when they say "we don't have any evidence of foul play", don't take that to mean they are 100% there wasn't any.

also about Anna...my impression was that she was not at the party Dan was at. Their friend Sarah knew Dan was leaving/had left so she was the one who called Anna to pick him up. This also should be kept in mind to the people who wonder about how the whole headlights thing/how she would have to have seen something. We don't know where she was coming from so it is my impression Dan reached St. Clair Ave. before she did and thus he was waiting for her and then something happened.

Curious said...

Those are great point Anonymous 2:45.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Lisa

With regards to 'The Smiley Face Killers'...

The FBI has looked at their information and decided they have NO EVIDENCE at all.

I just wanted to point that out.

I too was optimistic and believed that there might be a gang/group of people killing college-age men, however we need to keep in mind that the Detectives may be BLUFFING, i.e. pretending to have a good hand when all they have is a crappy hand.

I have currently distanced myself from sfkillers.com, after realiing that Kristi Piehl and Bill Szostak believe the perps to be 'White Supremacists' and 'Anti-Christian'.

I find it troubling how they could have concluded this based on the fact that there is little to no evidence. (I should state that both Kristi and Bill maintain there is evidence even though the FBI continues to deny such.)

So I just want readers of your blog to know that when the detectives and others react by witholding information and by stating we can't reveal certain informatio for fear of hurting the case then there are two possibilities;

1.) They are genuinely witholding evidence in order to protect a future investigation, arrests, & trial, or..

2.) They have absolutley nothing, no evidence, and are merely bluffing.

Unfortunately, at this time I am leaning toward possibility #2.

There is a reason why the FBI is not getting involved and I do not thing that reason is due to a conspiracy. I fully believe the FBI is justified. If proper evidence was presented, then they would have started investigating these cases.

Instead what we have is people who can't tell the difference between speculation and evidence, i.e. treating rumors, hearsay, and personal opinions as if they were proven facts.

Curious said...

To Boy In The Machine:

Is this Jason? If so I'm glad you made it. :)

To your point, I think that may be one of the reasons why the Detectives and Kristi and Bill Szostek parted ways - I think they were afraid that philosphy/theory would damage the credibility of any possible case. Like you said, once people mention cults and white supremacists (sp?), people stop listening. I don't know if there truly is a group of killers but if there were, I think it may be more about thrill killing or some sort of perversion - which would be a far more likely reason. I don't know if there is a group but I think the best thing to do is look at each case individually in order to solve them. That's just my opinion though.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Curious

Yes, it's me! LOL (I've actually been posting her for a long time.)

The perversion theory, a.k.a. sexual gratification theory would make sense, especially since it's common in sexual assaults and serial killings.

But I guess that option just didn't seem reasonable compared to their White Supremacist/Anti-Christian theory.

I too wondered why Kristi and the detectives parted ways. Perhaps there's more to the story there?

Anyway, I feel really bummed out after realizing that they don't seem to have anything other than speculation. They continue to claim to have evidence, but of course, they can't ever reveal any of it.

All I can reasonably deduce is that whatever 'evidence' they claim to possess, is not enough to convince the FBI that there is anything to the whole 'smiley face killers'.

Anonymous said...

OH NO-Pielh and the two investigators parted ways?! Where did you guys hear that?

BoyintheMachine said...

Anonymous:

Some people, including myself, have speculated that based on some of the things Kristi has said.

It seems as if Kristi was politely saying they have gone their seperate ways with regards to this subject, with Krist working with Bill Szostak.

Of course I could be completely wrong, but I'm not the only person who interpreted it that way.

Anonymous said...

I'll.. ask Kristi why Jason.

To Justin/Curious

There a probably various reason evidence isn't handed over to Jr. detectives. One Inspecter Duarte said he inteneds for their to be a trial and does not want to taint the evidence. You wouldn't want that would you? You wouldn't want the eventually caught suspects to get off unless of course they are innocent? And of course if you spread rumors that aren't true that might get the FBI to laugh at taking the cases on. You wouldn't that either, so please be very careful about your {speculating and such) sophmoric critical thinking (at best).

Anonymous said...

There used to be a cult awareness network that was sued out of existence by scientology. I think the theory was that cults had been infiltrated by folks that wanted to direct these cults in their desired directions. It would be good to have that network up and running again, so we could know what they were up to. Now it's all a mystery to most in the government. They were in existence for twenty years and the scientologists got all their files. Oh well.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous

"I'll.. ask Kristi why Jason.

To Justin/Curious

There a probably various reason evidence isn't handed over to Jr. detectives. One Inspecter Duarte said he inteneds for their to be a trial and does not want to taint the evidence. You wouldn't want that would you? You wouldn't want the eventually caught suspects to get off unless of course they are innocent? And of course if you spread rumors that aren't true that might get the FBI to laugh at taking the cases on. You wouldn't that either, so please be very careful about your {speculating and such) sophmoric critical thinking (at best)."

Anonymous, (you wrote 'Justin' but I think you meant 'Jason'.)

The problem is that they claim to have evidence. That's great. Of course they aren't going to show it to the lay people.

But they have presented info to the FBI and the FBI was not impressed.

In fact, Kristi herself reported that the FBI stated they need evidence and not further theories.

So if you want me to be blunt, it's time to 'put out or get out'.

If they are peddling the same information that the FBI said was not evidence, then they are doing everyone a disservice.

Anonymous said...

Josh's Dad explained that they have the evidence. He was answering one of the Justin's Post. He's a solid practical reasonable guy IMO.
He used to be an arson investigator. He would know about how to think in investigative terms, whatever they may be. I would think, gather all evidence and then deduce. Right?

Anonymous said...

OK

whomever said "It is time to put up or get out". Are you a cop of some kind? What is your interest.
You could get out and pretend we don't exist. Yes? If the story about the lack of decomposition of Josh's body over four month's isn't enough evidence for you or the Albany police I and many American's are speechless. But I can guarantee that no-one is giveing up. In fact, it is ramping up. Check out Kristi's tweet thing.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous

Whose Justin?

Yes, Bill Szostak says he has the evidence.

But anybody can say anything. And anybody can be dead-wrong about anything.

Nobody is infallible.

So the possibilities are:

1.) He has evidence.

2.) He doesn't have evidence.

My advice would be that if he has the evidence then he needs to turn over what he has to the FBI.

Anonymous said...

to Jason

who says they haven't turned evidence into the fbi? I think they have. i think the fbi either doesn't have the resources or their is a more sinister reason. like they don't give a damn.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous

"OK

whomever said "It is time to put up or get out". Are you a cop of some kind? What is your interest.
You could get out and pretend we don't exist. Yes? If the story about the lack of decomposition of Josh's body over four month's isn't enough evidence for you or the Albany police I and many American's are speechless. But I can guarantee that no-one is giveing up. In fact, it is ramping up. Check out Kristi's tweet thing."

That would be I.

But there's one small problem.

The opinion of the 'lack of decomposition' of Josh's body seems to be based solely in the opinion of Bill, Josh's father, and Kristi.

Josh Szostak has had 2 autopsies. I specifically asked Kristi if the medial examiners noted any discreprencies in how long the body was in the water and she did not answer me.

I have seen 2 interviews now where Kristi states that there was little decomposition and that is somehow 'evidence', but her or Bill's personal opinion doesn't count. They are not experts.

This is one of the problems I am having with these cases. There are far too many people who can't distinguish speculation from evidence.

And no, I'm not a cop. However, i can get inside a cop's mind, or even an FBI agent, or to be more precisely, just about anybody. I know what type of evidence Law Enforcement is looking for and I know that this evidence is completely lacking.

Currently, these cases are being brought to the court of public opinions instead of a court of law. This is usualy done in cases where there is no evidence.

Anonymous said...

are you the jason that got told off royally at sfk? ouch
I would find a new hobby if I were you.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous (FAR TOO MANY ANONYMOUS PEOPLE, GROW A PAIR AND REVEAL A NAME.)

"to Jason

who says they haven't turned evidence into the fbi? I think they have. i think the fbi either doesn't have the resources or their is a more sinister reason. like they don't give a damn."

It has nothing to do with resources. The FBI could easily manage a full-scale investigation if needed.

Instead, it's about evidence, or the lack thereof. The FBI has already gone on record of saying they were not convinced.

This means the so-called evidnece is extremely weak or even non-existant. That's the cold, hard truth.

Sure, if you want to take it to the conspiracy level, then you wouldn't be the first to believe the FBI is 'in on it'.

BoyintheMachine said...

"are you the jason that got told off royally at sfk? ouch
I would find a new hobby if I were you."

You mean, attacked by crazy flamers because I don't buy into the Satanist theory?

-Yep that's me.

BoyintheMachine said...

People should really refrain from discussing the smiley face killers further on this particuliar blog.

If you want to discuss it, go to a blog that is dedicated to the topic.

This particuliar blog post is about the disappearance of Dan Zamlen.

Anonymous said...

I think Justin is trying to sway the way the poor people here perceive sfk. I would rather you had said you were a cop, and not a mind control expert.

Your motive is only malicious IMO.

TO OTHERS-I think maybe the new head of the justice department might eventually have things straighted out so they can pay attention to this problem, but what do I know.

Just a note. If he is a remote viewer I can understand he wouldn't want to get into the mind of a Satanist. Boyinthemachine that is. Is that a remote viewer. It is kind of witchy too, getting into people's mind.

Anonymous said...

But you guys were bossman. Sorree

Anonymous said...

yes-they were saying things in a public venue that would discourage people taking sfk seriously. HE or tHEy are persuading people away from the sfk theory. They've been doing it all along. They are the Jason Curious admiration society. "oooo shivers up my spine lol. are you in my mind. are you me. am I you"

Anonymous said...

Batman-I thought you use to be a taxi driver and suspected a taxi driver in this Dan Zamlen disappearance? (earlier post)
Some of us who don't have any evidence as such don't jump the gun and believe the smiley face killer is involved. We don't have the info. to draw such a conclusion.
1. Dan left upset
2. Dan's last word was "help"

Not fact, but sure seems like fowl play to me. I like the "party goer" theory after putting some thought into it. Seems like that is something that could happen. It kind of makes sense. It's not as sensational as the smiley face killer theory and far more simple but who knows: maybe the answer is just simple.

Anyway, let's try to be a bit more friendly here and respectful. Each of us has a right to express facts, opinions and who knows, if we all work together maybe just one small thing will help to recover Dan. Arguing leads away from the focus: Missing people such as Dan.
Happy Easter All

Anonymous said...

Jumping the Gun-
Anonymous said:

Batman-I thought you use to be a taxi driver and suspected a taxi driver in this Dan Zamlen disappearance? (earlier post)
Some of us who don't have any evidence as such don't jump the gun and believe the smiley face killer is involved. We don't have the info. to draw such a conclusion.
1. Dan left upset
2. Dan's last word was "help"

Not fact, but sure seems like fowl play to me. I like the "party goer" theory after putting some thought into it. Seems like that is something that could happen. It kind of makes sense. It's not as sensational as the smiley face killer theory and far more simple but who knows: maybe the answer is just simple.
_____
Anonymous-I'm not Batman but I was wondering if you are being a bit hypocritical here. The police say there is no evidence, and yet you are jumping the gun and saying It sure sounds like foul play. If we are going to work together we're not going to go by your rulebook. OK?

The police see no foul play, according to their calling off the search. So who are you to question? (that would be according to your rulebook as it pertains to anyone entertaining patterns of SFK) Don't question authority Anonymous. It's over.

Curious said...

To the so called "Anonymous" that continues to address me:

First of all, this thread it about Dan Zamlen - let's not forget that.

Second, I hate to break it to you "Anonymous" but the FBI and/or any other other authorities DO NOT CARE about what we (yes this "we" includes you) have to say or what our theories and beliefs are. Period. All they care about is evidence from people that are connected to the various cases such as law enforcement and possible ACTUAL witnesses that KNOW something. We, you, me, and everyone else, are here just to speculate about what might be happening. We all have different ideas and there is nothing wrong with that. I thought that was what these sites were about. I hate to break it to you but in life people have differing views and opinions. Do I believe there are SFK groups out there. Honestly, I don't know. Could there be? Yes. Could it not be? Yes. NO ONE knows for sure. We can all speculate. I am not trying to dissuade anyone from believing anything because that is not my business or my place. You can believe whatever you like and I completely respect that. I would appreciate if you would be as respectful of me. This is just a place to discuss ALL of our beliefs, no matter how different they may be. If you cannot handle and respect others views than perhaps you should start your own site called "This is what I think and don't argue with me". Otherwise, knock it off. Don't address me or my beliefs unless you are going to respect them. And furthermore, the least you can do is use a NAME by way to define yourself as opposed to the non-descript "anonymous". All of this bickering is silly. Knock it off already.

Curious said...

To Anonymous 2:50: Thank you and well said. Yes, let's all respect our differing beliefs. We all have the right to have differing viewpoints.

Anonymous said...

I wasn't addressing you curious. I'm so sorry you thought I was. I didn't like what Anonymous 2.50 wrote to batman. That's all. If you liked what anonymous 2.50 wrote that you go right ahead and back him or her up in telling Batman he is jumping the gun.

I have a lot of questions about the simpler theory (which of course must not be jumping the gun), that anonymous has but I'll save it for another time, when fingers are cooler. HOney, I wasn't addressing you and wouldn't unless you said something I might be interested in, or if you slammed someone's approach to the case behind their back. OK?

Curious said...

Oh no Hon, I was referring to Anonymous 12:53 and 2:42. That person addressed me and Jason. Actually I think I know who that is, it's Leisure from the SFK site. Apparently, he/she feels our viewpoints will "disrupt" a potential investigation by the FBI - which is completely crazy and absurd.

And I was agreeing with the last part of Anonymous 2:50 which was to respect all views on this site. :)

Geez, it's hard to keep up with all of you Anonymous guys!

In any case, unfortunately still no news on Dan's whereabouts. The nore time passes the bleaker the outlook I'm afraid. :(

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Curious

Take a look at the wikipedia entry for smiley face murders. (Look at the histroy and discussion tabs as well as the article.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley_face_murders

'Detective Mike', a.k.a Mike Flaherty, has inserted his 'theory' to the page. Another user and I have deleted his entry because it is simply the theory of an individual, unconnected to the cases, and wikipedia isn't the place for every single person to list their 'theory' or 'speculation'.

On top of that, he deleted the criticism from the FBI, which stated the usual that there is nothing to the cases.

He has done this time and time again, and it is completely unprofessional.

Like the other guy stated, wikiepedia is not a soap-box. The smiley face murders is considered to be fringe and Detective Mike's theory is the fringe of the fringe, thus doesn't belong on this entry.

To keep this comment on topic, here is the latest news story about Dan Zamlen. As you may know, it was one week ago today that he disappeared.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/Dan_Zamlen_Search_One_Week_Saint_Thomas_Apr_12_2009

Anonymous said...

Everyone please say a prayer the boy's poor family. I cannot even begin to imagine what they are going through.

BoyintheMachine said...

(continued)

OMG, he rewrote the entire page!

This is completely unprofessional!!! This is crazy!!!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone heard if the cell phone was located after or if they got the court to "ping" for it? The behaviour of LE is fishy. Anyone agree? In all other misssing person cases, as far as investigation by LE, no news is never good news. I keep hoping they are following leads without telling us. WTF

Anonymous said...

Going back over the comments there is a what you might call a whisper campaign going on to discredit some of those involved in trying to solve the case, "innocently" the negative comment is made about people, then its whitewashed by saying "of course I could be totally wrong." When you engage in Politics in these things, expect to have a Political backlash. Be so very careful if you really want to have a useful dialogue on this site. Much could be at stake.
Don't worry about what others are thinking or doing constructivly, and don't use innuendo to sabatoge, but rather go about your own theories.

So what is this party theory. Do you think maybe a couple of kids from the party picked him up to help him or kidnap him? Maybe to rob him? I wonder if he had much money. I'm not even sure if the police are investigating or not investigating. The journalism so far is certainly scanty repetitive and incorrect much of the time.
Interesting that you guys are on top of the wikipedia entries. Nice to see you take your gatekeeping seriously. I looked into these kind of missing cases Kristi is dealing with but with other people that went missing in the 80's and early nineties. It is precarious territory when you start to investigate in the places you need to investigate. I believe Courage should be Honored, not made fun of. Courage is what we need to find a mysteriously missing person. Sorry to go on and on.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous

"Going back over the comments there is a what you might call a whisper campaign going on to discredit some of those involved in trying to solve the case..."

They've already been discredited.

All the main players in this 'investigation' have lost all credibility.

I think lay-people may not understand that, but in the professional world, when one makes a claim without having any proof, then their credibility is pretty much destroyed.

It's sad, but true.

I seriously hate that people are trying to connect Dan Zamlen's disappearance to the smiley face killers.

Anonymous said...

Is it me or is sfk brought up for conversation more by boyindamachine than anyone?

Anonymous said...

Jason, what are your credentials as a professionl? We would like to know so that we ignorant lay-people will feel ok in accepting your professional "getting into peoples minds- otherwise could be known as propaganda or disinformation" GIVE US YOUR CREDENDTIALS OR...

Anonymous said...

@ boyinthemachine - we get the point you do not feel sfk is valid. However, when you are dealing with opinion, you must remember each person has his own and be respectful. You are right that this thread is about finding Dan. I think some people see a link to the sfk. There is nothing wrong with that. However, this thread is not your platform nor is it about you. You continue to demonstrate a need to be right and others around you wrong. Finding Dan is not about "right fighting". This should be about people working together, sharing ideas and utlimately helping this young man and his family. Thank you to all who search and continue to keep Dan, his family and friends in their prayers.

BatMan said...

"I seriously hate that people are trying to connect Dan Zamlen's disappearance to the smiley face killers."
-BoyIndaMachine

Is it just me, or are you always looking for an argument?

An why do you hate the Sfk,theory?
Every day that passes it seems more
& more probable. Why else would his
last words be such? Hmmmmmmm?

An why is it that itz always- PRODOMINITELY WHITE MALES 19-25
that go missing? Especially early in the month & after 1am? You never here about Women or middle-age too older men FALLING in rivers/bodys of water? WHY NOT?
Because it doesn't happen...

Itz a Vendetta,By a group or cult who might just do it for sport, out of jelousy OR A HATE FOR WHITE AMERICA an the FUTURE of the Avg. person who's going too lead America into the new age.???

Like a Jihad type of movement,an who better THAN ARAB/MUSLIM CAB DRIVERS.With Knockout needles. Who BELIEVE ME,HATE THE MAJORITY OF US YOUNG AMERICA.

When I used too Drive Cab it was pretty hard as is, to befriend them an conversate at times. They have their own Language an Crazy ideals (look what they do too their women) An they constantly bitch about stupid drunken colledge kids. An itz very sad! But a great example is all the WAR that continually goes on in the Middle East. OVER NOTHING.
Religion does nothing but divide!.

Anywayz, Im getting side-tracked but I speak from a White mid 20's Experienced perspective. An itz just a theory that seems 2 become more probable by the day.

SO BE CAREFUL OF WHO YOU GET INTO CABS WITH. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR BY YOURSELF. Because some of the Non-Violent (money scamming skeems) that take place on a regular basis, are down right Evil. An- I've always believed that was MAYBE just the tip of the Iceberg.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous (Again, far too many people posting anonymously.)

"@ boyinthemachine - we get the point you do not feel sfk is valid. However, when you are dealing with opinion, you must remember each person has his own and be respectful. You are right that this thread is about finding Dan. I think some people see a link to the sfk. There is nothing wrong with that..."

Actualy there is something wrong with people doing this.

Conpsiracy theories can be both innocent, mild, and dangerous.

Satanic Ritual Abuse is an example of a dangerous conspiracy theory that hurt many, many innocent people.

The smiley face killers theory is an example of a mild conspiracy theory. It hasn't hurt people yet, but at anytime the situation can erupt into a witch hunt.

Currently, the theory by Kristi Piehl & Bill Szostak is 'White Spuremacists' and 'Anti-Christians'. -Very close, perhaps even a twist to the 'Satanic Cult' pseudo-explanation. In fact, at least one of the victims family has publicly commented his opinion that it was a 'cult'.

So yes, there is a problem with people willing to believe anything, especialy without any proof.

The belief that Dan Zamlen's disappearance is somehow connected to the smiley face killers does nothing to help find him or solve the mystery of his disappearance.

(I'm sure more comments from 'anonymous' people will follow, but I've communicated my opinion and will bid this topic adieu...)

Anonymous said...

I am very concerned about Dan. I am sure his family, roommate, etc. knows when he last changes his infusion set (part of pump that carries insulin) he still could be in ok shape if he is not eating much. Drinking can also lower blood sugar hours after drinkign especially if on a pump and not eating. I want to help or donate money for a bigger rescue effort. I know people on the American Diabetes Website would too - there is a huge message board there. Where do we go to help? UST?

BoyintheMachine said...

"I am very concerned about Dan. I am sure his family, roommate, etc. knows when he last changes his infusion set (part of pump that carries insulin) he still could be in ok shape if he is not eating much. Drinking can also lower blood sugar hours after drinkign especially if on a pump and not eating. I want to help or donate money for a bigger rescue effort. I know people on the American Diabetes Website would too - there is a huge message board there. Where do we go to help? UST?"

If you contact the local news stations, I'm sure they can put you in touch with the family. However, it would be better to have a professional person be the contact.

As you may know, with all searches of missing people, time is of the essence.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous (with regards to donations)

Yes, the University would be a good place to try as well.

Anonymous said...

DONATE HERE


http://finddan.org/

BoyintheMachine said...

"DONATE HERE


http://finddan.org/"

Excellent, thank you.

Anonymous said...

here is an update at kare11.com

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=613436&catid=14

according to them, police are still searching.

also...for the person/people wondering about how to help. if you're on facebook, there are a couple groups dedicated to searching. the largest is Search and Rescue for Dan Zamlen (volunteers only). A set up point is in MHC 154 at St. Thomas. The search operations phone number is: (651) 962-6129.

people have already mentioned direct deposit at finddan.org but you can also mail checks to:

Dan Zamlen Benefit
Wells Fargo Bank
302 Grant Avenue
Eveleth, MN 55734
(phone # (218)744-3035)

Curious said...

To: Boy In The Machine:

Hello! :) I checked out the Wiki site and was blown away! That was very disturbing! It's one thing to have a theory and discuss it on your own personal website, but it's quite another to alter the facts on a public site (by in some cases completely omitting them!!!)in order to make what was once a theory/speculation/opinion appear to be fact/truth! Wow! I'm so glad you guys caught that and changed it! It looks as if the legitimate changes you guys made haven't been altered - thank goodness.

Lisa, thank you so very much for posting those pics! It was quite eerie to see them and know that something terrible may have happened there (either by accident or something else) and know that was one of the last places Dan had been. Very sad.

Anonymous said...

The grafitti looked hand painted to me, rather than spray painted. Lisa, the post of the pictures disappeared.

Curious said...

To: Anonymous 7:15

It looks as if Jess25 copied and pasted the graffiti pic to the Dan Zamlen thread in the SFK site.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Curious,

The wiki page is back to normal and the Mike Flaherty, a.k.a. 'Detective Mike' info has been deleted and the topic temporarily locked by administration. Hopefully that will deter individuals from sabotaging things for a while.

Lisa said...

Readers:

I have removed the photo of the "Yelloh" graffiti, at least temporarily, and will send it to the NY investigators.

I do not believe that the grafitti is in any way related, and I have heard from a reader who routinely runs in this area, and it seems the graffiti was there BEFORE Dan disppeared.

I only posted the photo to report a balanced assessment of what I found. I was not prepared for the rash of speculation it created. I do not believe this serves the search for Dan, and it would be irreponsible of me to keep the photo up.

I will post it again if I hear from the NY detectives that it could be relevant.

Curious said...

Lisa,

Unfortunately rash speculation has been what I have seen at some of the other sites - it's not specific to that photo. Some people were quite nice and rational but some were downright scary. You did a very nice thing by posting pics - and it was great coverage by the way. You couldn't have foreseen this. It's not your fault.

Anonymous said...

For such an intense search I am shocked that NOTHING relevant has been found. The ground in not covered with a recent snow and the search for Dan has been extensive.
I would really like just 2 facts:
1, What was Dan upset about (at the risk of embaressing him to perhaps save his life)
2, Did Anna really go to pick him up?
The location he was last at was 4-5 blocks from the party. He lived pretty close to the party (10 blocks or so) but was on his way to U of MN to visit a friend so was off course to go directly home. He was intoxicated/disoriented (even though he dialed Anna). Does anyone have more info./facts that don't have to do with the smiley face killer?
Would the people at the party please speak up? Someone knows something....

Anonymous said...

some facts from someone who goes to st thomas and lives in the area:

1. I cant believe he was walking to the U that is sooo far from here especially drunk at night.

2. No one knows what the argument was why he left.

3. From people I have heard that he was super trashed when he left. I dont know about you but i would have no idea what street i was on if i was drunk...let alone trashed. Anyone sober enough to know what street he is on would not be walking to the U at 3am.

4. There is almost no way to fall in the river from St. Clair... there is a bike path down the bluff by the river i have ridden all the way down to Ford PArkway. There is only spot that is from the Limestone rock "the monument" that directly over looks the river. But, that puts him at least 3 blocks from where he said he was, and he would have been found around the dam area by now.

-686

Anonymous said...

Wow, I haven't hardly seen a rational comment on this whole blog.

1. STOP JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS.
2. STOP BEING SCARED OF EVERYTHING.

Any number of things could have happened to this kid. Nobody knows the answer besides possibly a perpetrator (if there is one). Yes, he most likely was abducted, but it's not for sure. He could have been grabbed by anyone, and I'm assuming the police are at least smart enough to check into the people who were at the party.

The people who like to theorize about serial killers have way to much time on your hands; there is no benefit to having knowledge of serial killers. It will not make you safer, so I don't see any point in it.

Secondly, for all you scared people: this is life, very occasionally bad things happen. Yes, you could never leave your house out of fear, but then again your house might start on fire. so for the lady who thinks college is terrible and believes a 25 year old needs supervision. All I can say is "I'm glad I'm not your son".

Seriously, the majority of comments are either literally insane or based on no real logic or evidence, what is wrong with you people, have you no sense whatsoever?

Anonymous said...

I'd also like to point out a couple things for those of you who either don't remember or don't know:

1. College kids wander out of parties drunk in th emiddle of the night all the time. Also, little drunk arguments are extremely common...it's part of getting drunk; so to infer that he had to be taken by someone from the party is reaching...it's much more likely he was grabbed by someone randomly.

Jessa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I have been blogging as an anonymous because it won't let me use a name. I'll just call myself anonymous 1.
People can write whatever they would like to about missing people on this site. Are there rules I missed?
Let boy in the machine and everyone write what they need to. Maybe more details will come out.
One thought I have about the sfk is that the boys are found shortly after they go missing (except for a couple) so I don't think it was sfk. I walk River road all the time and have never seen graffiti. Any time there is some there it has been gotten rid of right away.
We need some more facts...the media is just repeating themselves but finally have the story straight.
There is still a police presence in the neighborhood. Just yesterday there was a police car parked on the grass at Saint Clair and River road. It shows they haven't given up and people continue to search. He would have been found in this area by now- he must be some where else.
I hope the area is expanded to include furthur distances.
Also, I THINK if it were the sfk he would have been found in the river by now.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous1.
Also, things don't add up here with how he went missing. If Anna was telling him to look for the headlights (so she was close enough to his location to be by River road) how could she not see another car near by or see anything? It is so quiet by the river on an early Sun. morn. she surely would have noticed something or heard something.The chances of a random abductor and Anna being in the same area are way too slim (although possible). I think there is a huge piece of info. that we do not know.

Anonymous said...

Despite all the tangents people get on here, these blog comments are the best resource for public information on what's going on with this search and what actually happened. Thanks to everyone who has posted here. The press has not been helpful with details and the police are keeping a conservative public relations profile.

Anonymous said...

Does anybody know for sure that Dan was heading to the UofM area to another party? Or was this just loose speculation as it first seemed when it hit the news? That's a hell of a walk to try to take at 3AM.

I just don't believe he was in the location they think he was.

Abduction can't be ruled out, but I think it's more LIKELY that he wasn't where they thought he was.

It's too bad we don't have information about what time he left the party and how much he had to drink. If he had enough head start he could have been on the other side of the river.

Thanks,
Guy S.

Curious said...

Guy S,

That's a good point - maybe he wasn't at St. Clair at all. If he was drunk he may have been disoriented. That could be why he didn't see the headlights. From comments made by people that live there and by the author of the site who visited the area, it would have been quite easy for him to see the lights. That span of area by the river is not a large distance - only .6 miles. Unless the police were able to verify his location using the phone. Maybe he walked in another direction entirely. The only thing is that from everything I have read, volunteers have been all over the entire area. They have already visited 7000 homes! I would think that if he were there someone would have found him by now.

Although they found that woman's body in the river several weeks afer she jumped from the bridge. Does anyone know if Childs and Shepard Roads (where they found her) is before or after the dam?

Anonymous said...

Shepard Road is a mile or two after the Ford dam downstream. Not sure where Child Road is? Mississippi River Blvd turns into Shepard Road after it crosses Highway 5. This is only a few miles away from St. Clair and Mississippi River Blvd.

Curious said...

Thanks for answering Anon 2:42. I have another question - the woman jumped from a bridge. Is there a bridge before or after the dam? If it is before then that means if someone fell in the water they could make it past the dam.

Anonymous said...

There are several bridges in this immediate area.

Before the Ford dam there is the I-94 bridge, Franklin bridge, a railroad bridge, Lake Street/Marshall Ave bridge, and right before the dam the Ford Ave bridge.

After the dam, Highway 5 bridge, I-35E bridge, a railroad bridge, Smith Ave bridge, Robert Street bridge and Highway 52 bridge.

There are a couple before the dam and a couple after.

Try using Google Maps. There area has been well mapped out using the street level view.

Anonymous said...

Actually the area is not mapped out well in Google Maps street view. Thought it was. Sorry.

Lisa said...

Guy S,

I had the same thought about the U of M. It would be one heck of a hike. Maybe he 1) was disoriented and thought he would run into it eventually by following the path, 2) only mentioned the U of M in the hopes of getting a ride, 3) had mentioned earlier in the evening that he wanted to go there and someone just assumed he was still headed there, 4) he changed his mind along the way. There are still a lot of unknowns.

Because of his diabetes, it would not take much alcohol at all (as little as 2 drinks on an empty stomach or 3 drinks with a full stomach) to cause a serious drop in his blood sugar.

Diabetes and Alcohol

Anonymous said...

If you follow Mississippi River Blvd north, you will eventually end up at the U of MN Minneapolis campus. It is a few miles away.

From Dan's Facebook page, it seems that he likes to run. He even made a few comments about late night runs. (I can see his page because I'm a student at St. Thomas and he has his privacy set low.)

Anonymous said...

to the people wondering if he was really at St. Clair Ave.--

that's a good point because he had been drinking, however according to the media the dog DID find his scent at St. Clair Ave so I'm inclined to believe that really was his last known point. However, we know the media can be wrong so who knows. We just need to let the police do their job and hopefully in time we'll know more.

Anonymous said...

Someone has this poor man, there is no other explanation for this. The volunteers, as well as the police, etc., have combed the entire area where he was last known to be and have produced no clues to his whereabouts. According to the media reports, the snow was completely undisturbed in that area (discrediting his fall into the river) and the bloodhound stopped at the corner of St. Clair and Mississippi Blvd. which suggests that he was taken from that spot. Also his call to Anna suggests that he met something that scared him by his pleas for help. I have a hard time believing it was a "Smiley Face Killer" scenario - what perfect timing for this killer to have happened upon the scene when this poor man left the party a few minutes earlier and had only walked a short distance. And he has not been heard from since that time. Something sinister happened and it points to an abduction or foul play from partygoers. What other explanation could there be?

Anonymous said...

It is too bad we do not know how he sounded when he called Anna-- which words he emphasized, how fast/slow he spoke, whether he was speaking clearly--and what exactly was said. It would help determine the the context of the "help."

If he was abducted, a car would have been involved. I probably wouldn't say "Oh my God, help," if I were abducted---I would be more specific (i.e, oh my God, a man is grabbing me). And Anna probably would have heard some conversation between him and his abductors (i.e, get in the car, let go of me).

I think what Dan said makes more sense in reference to an emergency or accident of some sort.

Anonymous said...

i find it odd that the scent by the bloodhound was picked up right up until the intersection which would suggest he got in a vehicle.

perhaps he did get a ride to the u of M area or took a cab and then still fell in the river around the u of m. who knows. the area around the U is much shadier than around St thomas.

Anonymous said...

The woman they recovered jumped from the High Bridge(Smith Rd.) near downtown St. Paul as I understand it. She was found at Childs road which is down Shepard and near Hwy 61. There is a bend in the river and a lot of debris gathers there.
It looks like the Ford dam is flowing at a high rate. They probably let a lot of water go over the dam that bypasses the power plant portion. Someone could float over it easily and not be detected. Add to that the amount of debris in the water now and it would be very hard to locate someone. Let's just hope this turns out well.

Curious said...

To Anon 5:35:

Thank you for the info! It definitely answered some questions I had.

Guys, this is so frustrating - so many possibilities. I can't even imagine what the family is feeling right now. What a nightmare.

Anonymous said...

Dan did not get into an argument with a group of guys at the party. I am getting this information from people who were there that night. Dan may have been upset, but there was no fight so all of your theories about someone following him from the party can be put to an end.

The idea that he was going to visit some friends at the U is just a theory someone had. It is not supported by anything.

Dan was on Mississippi River Blvd. The dogs picked up his scent and then it suddenly went cold. It did not go down to the river, but stopped at an intersection.

Anna went to pick him up. Period.

The police think that there is no evidence of foul play. However, the lack of ANY evidence is an indication of foul play. When his scent just stops, there has to be a reason. Just because the police are unwilling to accept this makes it no less valid.

Anonymous said...

LISA-
I HONESTLEY dont think YOU could be any more DORKY & SIMPLE.
When it comes to-
"Your yellow graffiti, that your gonna send into the NY Det.'s."

Talk about people jumping too conclusions your the WORST one.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

His last location was known by 4 ways:
1. He told Anna he was headed toward the river (while walking the 4-5 blocks down St. Clair)

2. The dog followed his scent to the River road, on the side of the river

3. Police found a foot print in the snow but could not determine absolutely that it was Dan's. Also, the foot print was leading away from the river.

4. His last cell phone call "was traced to this area".

It's a 3 mile walk to the U of MN from that location. 3 miles may not seem like a lot to a runner or perhaps he was trying to cut across the river (via a brige) but couldn't find one.

I live in the area and have run in the early am and it has lights along the way. It is very quiet on weekend mornings (no traffic or maybe 1-2 cars) and busier during the week mornings.

I don't recall seeing taxi cabs there but then again I didn't pay attention too much. I just hope he didn't make it to the University because the area over there is not as good. Odd people even during the day and scary at night. And the police would have found foot prints as there was a fresh snow that evening. There weren't any.

This all brings me back to what happened at the party. Dan, a random abductor and Anna all in the same 4-5 block radius? Seems impossible.

Maybe he was followed? His plae for help? Did someone leave the party to go after him? Everything just seems to point back tothe party. The party was what he was trying to get away from and became upset enough to leave alone.

I sure hope they find Dan soon. I have walked the area (close to my home) and can't imagine with all the searches he can still be on the bluffs.

I wonder how much the police are with holding from the public. I saw a police van pull in on the grass by the river (and st clair) very quickly a day ago. I've seen people with telescopes looking at the river, binoculars...and nothing. It seems to me he was pulled into a car.

It's very sad. As time passes I realize the chances of finding him alive are less. The family at least deserves to have him back. I hope the next couple of days brings some answers.

Curious said...

To Anon 5:57:

If you're going to insult someone, the least you can do is use a NAME and CHECK your spelling. I see you have nothing better to do then to come here to insult people. Why don't you do something useful like, oh say, keep your negative comments to yourself and maybe take a writing class? If you have nothing productive to add then don't bother stopping by. Believe me, we would prefer that you didn't.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know how large this party was and if everyone knew each other?

Curious said...

Hi Anon 5:53:

Are you from the area and do you know the people from the party personally? Also, did they mention what happened to upset him?

Anonymous said...

I would bet the police are looking into the party. You work with what you have and as has been stated; the party is where things started to go wrong. I don't know any body that was there but I wouldn't think it would have violent people attending. I have been to parties where unwelcome and shady people have shown up and started trouble. It happens all the time.

Anonymous said...

The police are not looking into the party. I know several people who were there who have voluntarily come forward. The police have not talked to them.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous1

Maybe that is why the case isn't solved? However, it is hard to believe the police haven't spoken to some of those attending the party who had valuable information. Some of those that attended the party really don't know any more than what is written here...but other attendees do know a lot more. I am convinved this is where the answer is...all theory folks, not a fact.

Anonymous said...

I walked down the bluffs two days ago. I went down from St. Clair and Mississippi Ave. The dirt trail goes right by the edge of a cliff-very treacherous indeed. I went all the way down to the river-this was difficult to do without sliding as it is very steep. I was frightened that I might fall or slip into the river-when I got near the river I felt like this was a really bad idea. It seems to me-contrary to many posts and the report by fox-that it would be quite possible to tumble or slide all the way into the river, especially if it were wet or muddy.
If anyone considering searching down the bluffs by the rivers edge please be very careful! Secure yourself with a rope and have a friend who is near by to call for help should you fall in.
Dan is loved by so many people. The whole thing makes me really sad. Chris

BoyintheMachine said...

Anon @ 11:49,

I completely agree, but please don't put your safety at danger by doing that again. (Nor anybody else.)

When I hear people say that Dan COULDN'T have accidentally fallen in, I'm like 'How do you know?' That would have been my first guess and I'm sure many people thought the same. There's just no reason to suspect that it 'couldn't' have happened.

This whole snow thing and undisturbed brush is a bit silly, IMO.

Hopefully he will be found safe and sound, but if he is deceased then I hope his body is found soon. At least knowing what happened will help the family cope with the tragedy.

And hopefuly people here would refrain from conspiracy theories if they happen to find his body in the water.

Guy S. said...

@BoyintheMachine

It's very unlikely that he fell all the way from the top of the bluff, avoiding all obstacles, and into the river's current. He would need a lot of momentum from the start of his fall, maybe a catapault.

From the opposite side of the river, I counted two places where this could have happened, one is the monument, the other is a sheer drop over a sewage outlet. It would have required some careful climbing to arrive at the point where he could have fallen there.

Could have happened, but man it's hard to believe.

It's hard to believe anything at this point. All the best evidence for where he was and what happened still doesn't mean anything conclusive.

He may not have been abducted, but I'm finding it easier to believe that he got into somebody's car whether forced or not.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

To Anonymous 11:49

Please be careful. The police have asked people not to climb down the bluffs because it is dangerous and we don't want to add injury to insult. Glad you made it back safely.

Dan's insulin pump beeps pretty loudly when it needs to be refilled.Seems searchers would have heard this when looking for him. They have searched 5 miles from the area he was last known to be. I really don't think he is on the bluff although searches continue there. People came to my place and have searched this whole area on the Saint Thomas side of the river and have gone house to house, looking in garages, behind bushes.If he is found on this side of the river I will fall over because I would not believe he was over looked.
I just am hoping he didn't get into a car and end up in some remote area. He needs to be found....brought to his family. I'm glad his fanily is proactive in not letting this rest. They are trying to get the law changed about looking for a missing adult, especially if they are vulnerable (intoxicated,diabetic). They would like the police to start looking right away and not let time pass in that an adult male has the right to be missing.
Anyway, I'm going to the other side of the river today to walk, the U of MN side.
I pray he is found soon.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous1

Wow, who ever attacked you is taking thier anger out in an inappropriate way. I was actually going to thank you for this site and also ask you about the graffiti. I know the area gets tagged a lot put they always remove it quite promptly. Could you at least tell me the exact location? I live close by and walk river road to hidden falls a lot.
Try not to take what people say here personally. Keep up the great effort and know in your heart you are doing the right thing. Situations like this create stress and people seem to lash out. This site is useful!

Lisa said...

Anonymous 1,

Thank you for your comments. Can you e-mail me at footprints.blogmail@yahoo.com?

Thanks!

Lisa

Anonymous said...

I went to school with dan, he is a wonderful person, can you guys just please have some respect for him and stop all this dumb arguing and nonsence attacks on eachother. lets keep in mind what the bottom line here really is. We can work together on things like someone had mentioned earlier, but arguing about what someone had said or assumed, or whatever, just please let it go, someone saying something bad about you should not upset you or bother you as much as what his friends and family members are going through. think of others please and keep dan and his family in your prayers.

Curious said...

Unfortunately still no news about Dan. When I awoke this morning I was hoping he would be found. I found this video about the service they held for him - it's an old vid but it has interviews with people who knew him - a testiment of the person he was. Here is the link:

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/videos/vidid/5407/

Does anyone have any new updates on the search? I looked but couldn't find anything.

Anonymous said...

The Mississippi River will get a lot of traffic on these nice days as fisherman head out on pool #2. Pool #2 starts below the Ford Dam and goes to Hastings. It might be a good idea for searchers to hand out some info to those launching boats at the Hidden Falls boat ramp or the Lilydale access point. There are lots of good people that could help in the search.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

Thanks Anon. 242. We do need to be respectful here as I blogged earlier. Nothing new about Dan's location or anything for that matter. I haven't seen as many people roaming River Rd. as I have this last week-today especially. There are the usual runners and walkers and then many extra "roamers" walking and looking in the woods. This has been one of the most extensive searches from a community I have ever witnessed. Dan's family may feel this sense of community as people have not given up. They at least know people do sincerely care about their son's disappearance.
There aren't any police around anymore. That makes my hope drop a bit.
My heart felt prayers go out to Dan's parents and sister...and all that know Dan.
I think we'll have our answers soon...and until, let's keep looking.

Lisa said...

Sounds like there will be another search for Dan tomorrow morning.

Thursday, April 16th, 2009 -A bus for volunteers from the Iron Range will be leaving from Virginia High School on Thursday, April 16th at 7 A.M. It is completely free, with meals provided at no cost. Please call the Search and Rescue Command Center at 651-962-6129 to let us know you are coming.

Buses will also be stopping at Eveleth-Gilbert High School to pick up any students or adults from the Eveleth-Gilbert communities.

From http://finddan.org

Curious said...

That's great news Lisa. Dan has been missing for 10 days now. :(

Anonymous said...

Lisa, you do a great job and have a great heart, i am glad you posted the graffiti it could be of importannce whos to know?

Anonymous said...

"When his scent just stops, there has to be a reason. Just because the police are unwilling to accept this makes it no less valid."

If a scent trail stops does it mean the last scent was in the place the dog stops?

like on the ground?

what if Dan was walking then on stopped and perhaps lay on the ground and then was picked up by someone?

would the dogs be able to trace him if he was not walking after that but carried ?
it sounds really strange that a scent just stops.

it sounds to me that the trail has to be on the ground or the trees or something of contact, so the only possible way it can stop like that is if hes no longer in contact with anything including the ground.
This could only happen if he was picked up and carried by someone out of the area .

is this right?

Curious said...

To Anon 4/15 8:06:

It could be that but not necessarily. Your point intrigued me so I did some research and found a site about K9 tracking. It stated:

"The more contamination that occurs in an area, however, the more difficult it is for the dog to work the available scent. As people walk through the offender's path, the scent which he has left behind him is disturbed. These disturbances can often blow the scent in various directions. This can cause the dog to go the wrong direction and often lose the track. If the dog is working well and the conditions are good, however, the dog still may work the track out. Thus, it is up to the patrol officer at the scene to contain and preserve the area to the best of his ability. If there are other scents at the crime scene, the dog will not know which scent is the suspect's. You must keep the crime scene clear from other persons' scent until the dog team has arrived and a track has been initiated."

So he could have gotten into a vehicle or the area may have been contaminated by a lot of movement (cars, pedestrians, volunteer searchers, etc). Unfortunately it still leaves us back to square one. :(

Here is the link to the article - it's an interesting read:

http://www.policek9.com/html/k9roth2.html

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous @ 8:06,

Not necessarily carried. If he got willingly into a vehicle, or against his will, then it could explain why the dogs lost the scent.

For example, if a cop or a cop-impersonator, were to pull him over and order him into the car...

Anonymous said...

A few years ago while a student at St Thomas I was approached by two men in a small car as I walked the short distance berween north and south campus. One of the men asked if I needed a ride. After I poliety refused he asked again. The men were clearly older than the typical college student and definately nobody I had seen before. I really didn't think too much of it other than it being weird, but now I question their motives.

Anonymous said...

I can't seem to be convinced it was the police because he asked for help. Who asks for help on the phone when the police are there.

I think he was followed from the party (left upset) and that is why he wanted to know how to identify Anna (headlights) coming to get him. Maybe he didn't want to admit how afraid he was until they actually approached him and put him in their car.

Can't seem to get this original theory out of my head, it's such a strong gut feeling. It is all that makes sense to me.

I really think there were a couple of guys who followed him from the party and he knew it. That is probably why he called Anna to begin with. And I don't think he was "trashed" because he knew well enough he was in danger even though he was about 6 blocks from home. (The map is off and not accurate).

The police haven't confirmed or denied the foot print found in the snow was Dan's. Why not? Seems they know way more than is being told in the media.

I hope tomorrow turns up new answers and God willing he is found! This must be torturous on the family. As much as this may be difficult for us, imagine him as your son or brother. My heart goes out to them.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

Police dogs can loose a scent by all the reasons already listed by anonymous but some are very well trained and won't loose the scent unless it disappears.Like Boyin the machine, I think he got into a vehicle. But, not a police vehicle or he wouldn't have said "help". I think he would have been relieved.
Cops are usually great people. Every now and then we hear of a "bad" one and then it is all over the media again and again...like the fire fighter who was starting fires. It just is so ironic it gets publicity.
So, I'll ask why a cop? I'm curious to know why you have that idea?
Last summer I broke up with a boyfriend at 2:00 in the morning (after a long fight on the phone we met in person) and there was no one on River road at all on a late Sat. night. I have also gone for late night runs along there (No more) and there will be maybe 1 or 2 cars that pass by at the most. There is usally a car parked by the monument but who knows who they are and I'm sure the wierdos come out at night in that area.
I hope the search tomorrow is fruitful. 10 days is a long time to go missing.
Boyinthe machine: Why do you think it's a cop?

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous 1,

I didn't say it WAS a cop. However, I tend to go over all likely possibilities. Cops, cop-immitators, university rent-a-cops, or one or more individual abductors, are all possible.

The thing about authority figures or their immitators is that people tend to do what they say. For example, there have been cop immitators who have raped/murdered, though I must admit it's usualy female victims.

We really do not even know he was abducted at this point.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

To Boyinamachine: I was just interested in your idea and anyone elses for that matter. The more information the better.
Found out the police don't believe Dan's last word to Anna was help.(Star Tribune). Now why wouldn't they believe her?
Seems this is getting stranger by the day. So, Anna lied to the police now? (takes me back to when I questioned if Anna really was on her way to pick him up in the first place).
Not foul play?
The police must know a heck of a lot and are with holding this from the public.
I know this is all speculation but I am interested in people's ideas. I have expressed my own and have read many ideas. I may not agree but am trying to keep an open mind.Even have an open mind about the "yelloh" graffiti. Saw that today. Also saw the flowers mentioned.
Am I completely wrong but if we all put our heads together maybe something good will come out of this site? I can't see it doing any harm unless we lash out at one another.
And most everyone here has been sensitive to the family.
I have been searching the opposite side of the river but it's starting to feel wierd...looking for a body.
I live 1 block from the area and it almost is haunting to me. He had so much potential and had so much going for him. I can't help but to think someone harmed him. I don't know much about abductors but I really think Dan was abducted.It was my first inclination and remains with me. His father also believes this is the case (Trib.)
The best thing for a missing persons case is publicity. Thanks to the St. Thomas organizers for your persistence. If we all remain relentless about finding Dan, his chances are better for being found. Publicity puts pressure on the cops and keeps it in the public eye.
Prayers to Dan and his family.

Curious said...

To Anon 1:

Well said. :) And I really commend you for what you do - I think it's a wonderful thing you do by going out and joining in the search.

Every morning I wake up and think about the poor family. I can't imagine (and don't want to know) what it's like to have someone you love go missing. The "not knowing" must be absolutely terrifying. I hope he is found soon. I hope he is still alive but I guess that might be naive of me at this point right? When I look at his photos I say a young man so full of promise.

I don't know what to think about his disappearance anymore. I keep swaying back and forth from abduction to accident.

Curious said...

To Anon 1:

Dan Zamlen's father also believes it was abduction:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/114987/group/home/

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

To Curious: There is always a chance he is alive, that he turned 19 and may be in a diabetic coma.I have hope too and don't feel niave for having hope. I know technically it's about recovering his body and that is what is haunting but my faith keeps me hoping Dan will be found alive. There is always that chance unless something proves otherwise. And when I'm searching I listen for the beep of his insulin pump.
Let's keep this going until Dan is found and returned to his family.

Guy S. said...

@Anonymous 1

"Found out the police don't believe Dan's last word to Anna was help.(Star Tribune). Now why wouldn't they believe her?"

Somewhere on this forum I think, somebody who knows the parties involved explained that the girls had a difficult time recalling much clear content from the phone call. It was hard to hear due to wind and they were both kind of freaked out in the moment. Dan was also drunk and maybe not making a lot of sense. An early report on that phone call talked about how his voice seemed to be getting further away and then the call was dropped.

The one thing that poster seemed clear on was that the call ended with a cry for help.

When you read a newspaper article that says the police are uncertain that what Anna said happened is what actually happened, it doesn't mean that they don't believe her. They just have to ascertain what information they actually do have and what information they don't have. You also have to consider that your information is coming from a reporter who may have misinterpreted what the police were actually trying to communicate.

"So, Anna lied to the police now?"

No. But witnesses don't always have accurate or useful information and ufortunately the police's own skepticism and conservativism is coming through in a negative light publicly.

"Not foul play?"

They have no evidence for foul play. They apparently have no evidence for fair play either.


"The police must know a heck of a lot and are with holding this from the public."

It would be irresponsible detective work to make their working case file public. One of the things they do know is why Dan left the party. So do I. He left because he was a drunk kid having a moment of self-pity. Pretty normal.

He was apparently not too upset to call his friends at the party shortly after he left. I haven't heard any reports that he tried to call anybody else.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous 11:32,

What do you mean by 'self-pity'?

How do you know this to be true?

You do realize that such knowledge, if proven correct narrows the possibilities of what might have happened to Dan Zamlen?

If true then it could indicate Dan Zamlen either commited suicide or ran away.

Has anyone checked local cab companies to see if they have any logs from that area on the early morning of his disappearance?

Did he have any credit or debit cards?

Anybody know anything further about the court order to track the last phone call?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

Thanks anonymous 11:32. While it is speculation I didn't consider that maybe the media misconstrued what the police said about Anna. I guess I was just blown away by the article claiming the police didn't believe her statements were true.Thought to myself, wow, this is getting just too strange!
And about the lack of information coming out...I get it but am frustrated at the same time.

Hidden Valley Falls (2 miles from Dan's last known location) search turned up nothing today.Many on foot climbing the bluffs, going through the woods and a helicopter over the River.I have heard so much from people (all speculation) and recently that the police think it was an accident and that he is in the River.

The cell phone call was traced and found to be in the area of Saint Clair and River Rd. which is where the BloodHound lost Dan's scent. Don't know anymore than that.

It would be very interesting to see a taxi cab log. I wonder if they'd even fess up if a cab did pick him up. Don't know if they have been checked but great idea.You could make this suggestion.

I have heard (emphasis is on heard) that Dan was not very drunk, but was upset and wanted to get away from the party. I heard he did not typically get drunk at parties.Also that the insulin pumps are pretty efficient at controlling blood sugar levels. Also, I have heard that Anna was not at the party Dan left from. Does anyone know if this is true?

Don't mean to knit pick here but would be nice to have more facts.

One more thing:Heard River road is often used by cabs at night during down times, especially if they do airport runs.They sometimes meet up there when it is really slow.I run/walk either late at night or in the early a.m. and haven't really noticed.Was pretty oblivious in this area until Dan went missing. All the more interesting to see a cab log.

11 days and nothing. Left flowers at St. Clair this morning but they were gone later in the afternoon.

Prayers and thoughts are with this suffering family. Can't even imagine their pain.

Anonymous said...

Batman 4/9/09 That is really scary what you share. The way you write is scary. Do taxi cabs drive river road at night? What is a knock out needle?

Lisa said...

Anon 10:30

Fabulous idea! I changed the header to say 19. Let's keep hope alive.

Anonymous said...

Mississippi River Blvd is not heavily used by cabs. Cretin Ave maybe, but not River Blvd.

Anonymous said...

From the top of the bluff it looks as though one would land at the bottom and not go into the river. From the bottom of the bluffs-where I was- it seems quite obvious that one would go into the river. If Dan fell-and I am assuming that he did from the way that the phone call ended- then I believe he hit the ground, died on the spot and rolled into the river or hit the ground on his feet and in trying to catch himself rose to his feet running, trying to catch his balance on the way down the slope propelling himself into the river by the force of his own momentum. I believe that Dan went into the river that night. We have seen so many Hollywood movies with a surprise ending that we have become accustomed to thinking that the most obvious conclusion fails us. I was down by the river, I was sober and still fearing that one false step would send me into the river.
I believe that Dan is with us but that Dan has passed. He sees how much he is loved. One day he will see his family and all those he loved and loved him. To speculate otherwise at this point seems to me to be hopeful thinking. Dan will not be forgotten, in small ways he has touched so many-I think we need to be honest with ourselves-Dan went into the river. God bless Dan and his family, may he help them through this difficult time. Chris

Curious said...

The reward has been increased to $10,000. for any information. Here is the news story:

http://www.examiner.com/a-1964582~Reward_for_missing_St__Thomas_student_goes_to__10K.html

Curious said...

A friend of mine wears the same type of insulin pump that Dan was wearing. I asked her how long the pump would last if God forbid she were lost in the woods. She said that if the pump were full (of insulin), it would last a total of 2 days before it would need to be refilled. She said that many diabetics carry refills - the refills are small, about the size of a thumb so they can be carried in a pocket.

Just an FYI since I think a poster asked this question previously.

Elucreh said...

...And down into the river the truth will hide...until the next poor soul fall into the same trap.
How many "coincidences" will it take to stir a real investigation of these cruel murders?

BatMan said...

1st of All CABS DONT KEEP REAL OFFICIALY ACCURATE LOGS...
Itz Freakin Impossible(or damn near)
With them (Cabbies) itz all about there Lease $$$.That they USUALLY pay at the end of a night/shift. An how they come across getting that LEASE MONEY is entirely up too them.
- (100% truth)

I've been on my share of SOLO stakeouts watching fellow CAB DRIVERS ect. Buy MAINLY remembering the # on the side of their cars.
EXAMPLE = I used to watch a Fellow Cabbie from the same company I worked at sit on the corners of 7th
between Grand an Walnut?(I believe)
EVERY MONDAY NIGHT for SOMETIMES HIS ENTIRE SHIFT. By checking the Hood of his car (Too see if it was hot). An also made periodical observations of his Cab As I radohmly drove around an did an - 'An Honest days work'.

Point Being-CABS have FREE REIGHN 2 come an go as they please (Hence My 4/9/09 SFK. theory).I later came too the conclusion that the Cabbie(Investigated above) sold drugs,& also did them. = LAZY.!???
But then again i wasnt being paid too investigate, I was just being Nosey Ol' me.

Another point to back up my #2nd Original SFK. theory is that CABS RARELY IF EVER GET PULLED OVER. That is why Drug distribitution any MANY other Facets of Evil can be bent to a Cab Drivers will. As long as one pays his or her lease.
-FREE REIGHN COMES WITH THE TERRITORY-.

BatMan said...

-I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT A COUPLE OF THINGS-
------please take no offense-------
I have been DRUNK b-4. Real drunk (who hasn't) So if Dan was WALKING & TALKING at the same time,in an area he was somewhat familiar with. How could Dan possibly stumble off an embankment, Land, then get up (wit probally a broken bone or 2) an walk/crawl (what 12+yds.?) then push himself into the river ??? After having what I understand as a somewhat sobering social experience..? Prior too leaving the party,? C'mon people.

A Vetran BloodHound would of Sniffed that out in seconds!!! (after of course getiing his scent from a pillowcase, or whatever)

It doesn't add up. I could see how 1 or 2 persons could have came along with maybe Masks on (As a Scare Tactic) an a gun(s) then demand he get in a vehicle.

Was Dan part of a Frat..? Or a possible Plege? Does anyone know if he was? Perhaps an Iniation gone wrong? He was a Freshman correct?

IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT I JUST ASKED/PROPOSED(above)THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE EXTREMLEY HELPFUL...

Also 'LISA' you said you found Yellow Grafitti? Where? I would like too see if it matches (Font wise) with some of the other Grafitti i found along the Mississippi over by Dwntwn Mpls &(Riverplace). That could be related too earlier victims just down stream from where they were recovered.

I also noticed the other day A Drainage Canal under the Lake St./Marshall bridge, on the St.Paul side with what looked like difficult access, but Grafitti galore along the rivers edge. Somebody with a canoe, or something should check that out.? (Because of what was found in a similar drainage canal/tunnel in Lake Lavere, Iowa in 2007 after a body was discovered.)
JUST A THOUGHT.

An whoever asked asked what a "Knock-Out" needle is - Well itz pretty self explanatory a syringe filled with "You know What" rendering one unconcioucess for a brief period of time.

*GOOD LUCK WITH EVERYONE'S SEARCH*

Anonymous said...

St. Thomas does not have Frats.

Guy S. said...

@ BoyintheMachine

"What do you mean by 'self-pity'?
"How do you know this to be true?
"You do realize that such knowledge, if proven correct narrows the possibilities of what might have happened to Dan Zamlen?
"If true then it could indicate Dan Zamlen either commited suicide or ran away."

How do you know any of what you're speculating if you have to ask me what I mean by self-pity?

Here's what I mean: the story is that he had been drinking, some witnesses say he was shitfaced, and he left the party after getting upset by something that happened and without telling anybody he was leaving. This is not unusual behavior. Read what I said again and my conclusions.

Curious said...

Volunteers are now searching for Dan's cell phone. Here is the latest article:

http://wcco.com/local/dan.zamlen.missing.2.986561.html

Curious said...

Unfortunately I don't think this will be a happy ending. I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look good.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

I too am getting a bad feeling about this. So much time elapsing.I am too exhausted to search today.

I checked out the Omnipod and the insulin insert holds 200 units which is enough for 3 days. If he carried refills he just might be alive? I am praying and hoping.

Dan's father has a strong feeling his son is not in the river, that he is 'somewhere up above'as he pointed up from the river . His father's strong feeling means a lot to me because gut feelings are often times correct.

They are using metal detectors to try to find his phone.

All of these college boys going missing....appears something more is going on. God only knows what! I just hope Dan doesn't fit into any of the theories about these boys that go missing and end up in water. With the persistance of all involved, if Dan were to be I think they would keep pursuing it until answers are found.

My prayers go out to all of Dan's good friends and family.Hopefully he will be found soon.Can't imagine what you are going through but please know people do care.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

Quick question. Does reward money really bring the right people forward? Just wondering because it's $10,000 now and I can't even imagine accepting money from a family for helping to find their missing son. It would feel pathetic.

Guy S. said...

Those who are hoping to find Dan alive outdoors should by now accept that he could not have survived so many days and nights outside even in a coma.

Those first couple nights were cold enough to cause hypothermia, and he would have had no food and no water for 10 days.

The only real hope is that he ran away or was abducted and is still living.

Let's rule out the runaway scenario. He would have had to do a lot of detailed planning to pull this off so perfectly, and it would be completely out of character and mean spirited for a guy who was so connected and on the ball.

An abductor probably wouldn't have kept him alive this long and would need to have a supply of insulin on hand.

I wish there were some other possibility, but if he is ever found, he will not be alive at this point.

I hope I'm wrong.

Anonymous said...

Noticed in Nathan Kapfer's page that his belongings were arranged around a statue.

Wonder if the World War 1 monument at Summit Ave. and Mississippi River Blvd. is of any significance here?

From the picture with the yelloh graffiti, it appears that it was written near the fencing that surrounds the base of the statue.

Anonymous said...

Here's a link to a picture of the World War 1 monument:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimherzog/2034695407/

Anonymous said...

Detectives Gannon and Duarte were here in Minnesota days after Dan went missing--i believe at the request of his family. Both Detectives and Kristi Piehl were interviewed on Garage Logic, a local afternoon talk show. Here is a link to the podcast.
http://www.am1500.com/podcasts/index.shtml#garage


The interview is under Garage Logic , THursday, at the 2:00 time. They are not saying that Dan is one of the victims, but they do give quite a bit of good information.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous @ 2:54,

OMG.....

I sure hope the didn't meet with the family because that would be incredibly unprofessional.

BoyintheMachine said...

FYI: Gannon claimed in the interview that the family of Dan Zamlen requested their help.

Anonymous said...

Thats what i said.

Detectives Gannon and Duarte were here in Minnesota days after Dan went missing--i believe at the request of his family

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

This is really getting creepy that Gannon is here investigating.Listened to the Podcast.

Last night I was coming home from a friend's house at 1:30 am and there were 3 cop cars parked by the monument. This is very unusal, never see even 1 cop parked there.
This tells me Gannon is keeping the cops on the case or putting pressure on them.

I think it's good to keep the case active and just maybe it will get solved. People from all over have come to the area (curious, trying to help...)

As long as there is pressure and public interest just finally one of these cases might get solved.This may spare a future event from happening. There is national attention now.

I would imagine if Gannon is here then the FBI is too? Anyone know?

BoyintheMachine said...

Outlook not so good. Dan Zamlen's credit card and phone have not been used since his disappearance. Zamlen's family clings to the hope of an abduction.

Red tape delayed search, say parents of missing student

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/117814/group/home/

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the update Boy.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1

Why would it be unprofessional of them to meet the family if they requested this?

I'm sure the family is looking for answers about their son's disappearance and are being open minded about all possibilities of what may have happened. I sure would be!

I mean where does one go from this point to move forward in finding Dan or trying to understand what may have happened to him.

I'm not suggesting it is SFK but the circumstances are eerily similiar.

There have been too many young males going missing and then found in bodies of water. Not females, but males mostly in the Midwest in winter months.(Sept.-Apr.). There is something to this and no one can deny that. They can dispute the SFK but the stats on missing young white college boys ending up in water can not be disputed.

When I was in college and going to parties none of my drunk male friends wanted to go swimming! They wanted to find a girl, another party, more to drink,find a bed, get something to eat...but not one mentioned wanting to go to freezing cold water.

I think there is really something to this although of course I can't say it has happened to Dan. Today it broke my heart when I saw his father with a metal detector still looking for his cell phone. I love that these parents are relentless and have even changed Brandon's law. They are very strong people and continue to look for answers.

I hope the persistence continues and that time doesn't become an enemy in detering further inquiry and searching. River road was quitier today...the typical runners, bikers and walkers..very few searching for Dan.

I pray he is found soon for the sake of the family and his friends.

BoyintheMachine said...

Att: Anonymous @ 1:02,

You are directing it to the wrong person. I stated that I hoped the they didn't meet the family because it would be very unprofessional, which is true. I later clarified that in the interview Gannon says they wer contacted by the family first.

See the difference?

Please also understand that we can't treat these deaths like it's connected to religion. In religion we are taught to have faith, i.e. no evidence. In reality, there needs to be evidence to back up claims. At this point there is simply no evidence to back up the smiley face killer theory. This is why local law enforcement and the FBI have rejected the theory.

Understand?

I'm not 'debunking', merely trying to keep it real. Too many people are pretending as if the smiley face killer theory has been proved when it hasn't. All that has been publicly stated is speculation, hearsay, and rumor, not any actual evidence.

And remember that the investigators don't need to solve the case, all they have to do is 1.) prove these deaths are murders, and 2.) prove the murders are interconnected. So far they have proved 1 death (Chris Jenkins) was murder and more than likely one other one will be reclassified as well (Patrick McNeil). They claim they have proof for other deaths being murders but such proof has not been made known to the public.

Likewise, the *main* people (not the fringe lay-people nor the loons) have made claims that they have real evidence which they are keeping private in case of a future trial. We likewise shouldn't have faith that what they are saying is true. For all we know it could be the exact same info the FBI has dismissed or may turn out to be yet more speculation, hearsay, and rumors.

Again, I'm not trying to debunk the case, just stressing that our attituted should be one of 'wait and see' and not complete acceptance without any proof. Yes it's possible a gang of serial killers is on the loosse but there still needs to be evidence for such.

Anonymous said...

Boy, I think you are a fed trying to sway public opinion. You are very rude, disruptive, and try to act like you are sooo much smarter than anyone on this board.

On the other hand, Anonymous, right above you, I believe what you said is very Heart-felt. I agree with you.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1
To BITM:

Thanks, didn't see the following post about the parent's request. My bad.

I really didn't even mention religion in my post at all and didn't know SFK had anything to do with religion. Does SFK have to do with religion? I have not read all about it, just a few articles.I also didn't say it was the SFK. I merely stated one can't dispute the stats on young,missing, white, college boys ending up in water in the Midwest.(Although they can dispute the SFK.)

Also the circumstances of Dan going missing appear similiar to all the other boys going missing.I feel defensive here because feel you have jumped to conclusions about what I said in my post.I never said Dan was taken by the SFK with out doubt.

Believe me, a SFK existing is the worst nightmare and I pray there is no such person/s as the SFK however I keep an open mind.I'd love to say no way but there is a possibility and no one has provided evidence that there is not a SFK. That it's existance is impossible. So as I have said, I keep an open mind.Think with all these boys going missing need to open our eyes.

I'm starting to worry Dan will never be found. It has been 2 weeks and nothing. The family needs him back with them. They need some closure to this.

I don't think he is in this area (I live in the St. Thomas area) and hope the next search is some where different. I also hope his father finds the cell phone. It may provide some answers.

All my prayers for the family and Dan's friends.

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