After spending the night of Saturday, Feb. 13 at a wedding reception at the All Star Lanes at 4735 Mormon Coulee Road, Meyers went to two downtown bars in La Crosse, Wisconsin. He was last seen at approximately 1:50 a.m., after his cousin dropped him off on the 700 block of Market Street. The area where he was dropped off is on the south side of the city, just 9 blocks from his residence. Meyers was reportedly intoxicated and believed he was being dropped off at his girlfriend's residence, which is actually on 16th Street. He was not seen again until February 16, when his body was recovered from the Mississippi River.
Meyers was a criminal justice student at Western Technical College in La Crosse. Prior to college, he attended West Salem High School where he was a state champion wrestler. More than 600 people showed up at an event at the college to remember the much-loved student.
Footprints believed to be belonging to Myers (right) were found leading from a snow bank "between the Marriott Courtyard and the Riverside Center Buildings out onto ice-crusted river," according to the La Crosse Tribune. According to the Courier Life News, "student volunteers and police reserves keep watch in Riverside Park between 11 p.m. and 3 a.m. on weekends, said La Crosse Police Lt. Bob Berndt, but neither group patrols as far south as where the footprints were found."Authorities searched the Mississippi River area after a dog tracked Meyers' scent to the ice on Monday (2/15). The ice on the river is at least 6 inches thick in some places, "thin and crumbly in others," and there is open water further out, reported the La Crosse Tribune. Family, friends, former high school acquaintances and local law enforcement canvassed the river area and downtown La Crosse on foot. Firefighters and divers also drilled holes in the ice and lowered down underwater cameras on Monday, Feb. 15.
The Search for Craig Meyers
The Meyers family received news on Monday, Feb. 15 that police had found signs that someone had tumbled down the riverbank behind the Marriott Courtyard. Video surveillance footage captured by the Sara Lee Bakery on Sunday, Feb. 14 shows a man matching Meyers' description walking alone and headed west on Cass Street in downtown La Crosse.
Recovery Effort
A preliminary autopsy on February 18 showed that Craig Meyers died as the result of a cold water drowning. Acute alcohol intoxication (a blood alcohol content of 0.28 was noted at that time from a urine test) and hypothermia were contributing factors. There were no signs of trauma to the body.
Final autopsy results released March 3 showed that Meyers had a blood alcohol content of 0.19, which is more than twice the legal limit for driving. According to WTMJ Newsradio, "physicians say the blood test is a more accurate determination of intoxication than a urine test, which put Meyers' alcohol concentration at 0.28."
Anyone with information in this case is asked to call the La Crosse Police Department at (608) 785-5962.
Quick Facts:
Name/age: Craig J. Meyers, 21
School: Western Technical College (criminal justice major)
Last seen: 02/14/10, 2 a.m.
Recovery: 02/16/10, Mississippi River
Findings: Coldwater drowning with acute alcohol intoxication and hypothermia, 0.28 BAC, no signs of trauma
Physical Description: 5'6", 165 pounds, brown, hazel eyes. Last seen wearing a light-colored long-sleeved collared shirt, black pants and black leather jacket.
Originally posted: 02/14/10
88 comments:
Yet another missing in La Crosse? I pray that they find him alive. I would keep my sons out of that town at this point.
His family member just dropped him off at no specific place? No confirmed last sighting of him, other than the relative who dropped him off? Strange. Hopefully he just got too drunk and ended up spending the night/day w/ someone. I hope he is found safe and sound.
New information was just released clarifying some of your questions. Apparently he thought he was near his girlfriend's place but wasn't. Footprints wer found on the river.
@ Lisa,
Thanks for the update. Could he have been so intoxicated that he wandered onto the ice-covered river? The finding of the footprints donesn't abod well. I sure hope this case doesn't end tragically.
BITM,
That's a valid question; it does sounds like he could have been drinking quite a bit. It was reported that he was intoxicated and had gone to a wedding and two bars. One report said he was confused, thinking he was near his girlfriend's when he wasn't. Not proof, of course, but it makes one wonder.
He is a student at Western Technical College, which is on 6th & 7th Street. This is about a 20-minute walk north from where he was dropped off. While it did not say where on 6th his girlfriend lives, since the college is on 6th, perhaps she lived near the college. (We know he lives 9 blocks from the drop-off site, so perhaps he lives 9blocks north, near the college too).
The footprints were found about 5 or 6 blocks west of the college right near the Pearl and Third bar area. So if they are his, the footprints could suggest that he tried to squeeze in another drink in the last twenty minutes before the 2:30 a.m. bar close, then walked 2 blocks in the wrong direction to the river. All speculation, of course.
I was mentioning these cases to my husband last night. If all cases are purely just young men drinking too much and wandering into a body of water and drowning, then there is a greater need for awareness.
We have two boys in college and another entering this fall, I am going to make certain my sons are aware of this issue and that they use the buddy system, NEVER go off by yourself and NEVER leave a friend that has been drinking, even if only a little bit. Just because they decide to walk home obviously doesn't make it much safer than if they drove their car.
I have been guilty of only telling my daughter these rules, and telling her to always be aware of her surroundings while assuming it is different for the boys, not anymore!
It wasn't clear if the search dog actually followed Craig's scent from 7th and Market back to the downtown La Crosse area and to footprints on the river. I guess I'm just hoping they confirmed the footprints belong to him so they are not overlooking he may be passed out in the cold and be in need of help at a different location.
If they have confirmed this, it's possible his girlfriend wasn't home so he walked the 0.8 mi. back to the bars he had just come from.
Hope he shows up and is safe.
21-male-Lacrosse-last known to be frequenting bars--vanished the night of the 13th ( give or take a couple hours ) ...
There's really nothing nonchalant about it -- this must be the 100,000,000th "coincidence" that, naturally, so many people don't take seriously. Men are MEN, after all, right? They can always take care of themselves, nothing to worry about ...
Speaking of La Crosse, I ran across this article in 12/2009.
"Facebook stalking is the latest tool the La Crosse Police Department has employed to crackdown on underage drinking."
They created a false profile of being a girl and then befriended students so that they could gain access into their private lives. Apparently they were looking for students who were drinking and then would arrest them based on the pictures!
Creepy they are "stalking students" and reading about their private lives behind a desk rather than getting out there to arrest underage drinkers.
A little off topic but feel it's worth mentioning.
How is it that he was dropped off, in downtown La Crosse with no sightings. For as popular of a night life as that part of the city has, it seems very strange
http://forum.dailyshow.com/tds/
board/message?board.id=story_
suggestion&thread.id=19287
Here's the link.
Also why didn't his cousin either drop him off at his own house or his girlfriends. Why just leave him intoxicated and unsure of his surroundings.
Does La Crosse still have the River Watch group they started after so many men drowned?
As far as I know they were doing project river watch as recently as Nov '09 so I would sure hope they are continuing it.
Does project river watch cover the river in areas other than Riverside Park?
Meyer's footprints were found by the Mar. Court yard which is further away from the downtown bars-does it cover this area also and how well populated is this area at night?
@ Monique777,
With regards to your facebook comment, cops have been doing that for some time. And it's not just facebook. Myspace and forums as well are being targetted by cops who pose as minors, usually to try to bait and lure would be child molestors.
Where was the wedding reception? What two bars did he go to after the reception? Why didn't he call his girlfriend? Pretty sad that his cousin would just drop him off. Did he try to walk back to a bar? Did he try to walk back to the reception area or was the area by the river just random if in fact the footprints were his?
Sadly project river watch only covers the Mississippi River, and only happens from thur-sat evenings. And the odd thing is that during the semester La Crosse is very busy downtown. That is where the majority of students from the multiple surrounding colleges go. How he was not seen or noticed in such a busy area filled with college students baffles me.
According to one report the footprints didn't belong to Craig Meyer.
"La Crosse police Capt. Rob Abraham said a set of footprints leads out onto the river, but further investigation revealed those prints did not belong to {Meyers}." The article said "eyers"
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/
dpp/news/craig-meyers-missing-
lacrosse-river-smiley-face-
feb-15-2010
So, if this report is correct, then whose footprints lead out to the river and don't come back?
Today they say that there is evidence that someone rolled down the embankment behind the Marriott Hotel, and that dogs HAVE picked up Craig's scent at the river. Link: http://www.lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_192ead50-1abf-11df-b38d-001cc4c002e0.html
@ Annika & Others...
It's not looking too good at thist point.
Does anybody know if he might have tried to take a short-cut, possibly even attempting to cross the river?
Looks like they found him.
:(
http://tinyurl.com/yko83jq
They definitely found him. :(
http://tinyurl.com/ygrq27m
It looks like they found him in the water by the Mariott, the same place they found evidence that someone had fallen down the hill.
Sad.
My advice: Remember M.A.D.D.? We need a similar organization, this time to educate people of the dangers of of intoxication, especially in cold weather and around bodies of water.
Thanks for the updates. It's very sad, indeed. I can't say I was expecting any other outcome, however. At least the family won't be left wondering whether or not their son is still alive. The only thing that is more sad is that it's certain now to be ruled as yet another mysterious "drowning" in Lacrosse.
And in response to BITM's comment ( insensitive, as usual ), it is physically possible for a body to be rolled down an embankment.
@ Anonymous
"The only thing that is more sad is that it's certain now to be ruled as yet another mysterious "drowning" in Lacrosse."
Alcohol + Freezing Cold Weather + Bodies Of Water = Outlook Not Good
I just hope nobody tries to claim this case as being part of ther "murders".
@ Anonymous
"And in response to BITM's comment ( insensitive, as usual ), it is physically possible for a body to be rolled down an embankment."
Yes and it's also possible he killed himself, HOWEVER there is no reason to believe that he was either rolled downhill or killed himself.
INSTEAD it appears as JUST ANOTHER alcohol-related accident. Stop trying to make it anthing else. If the evidence surfaces later on that calls this into question, so be it. But for now, it looks like a tragic accident.
FYI: It's no insensitive to be honets. What is ethically wrong is to emply murder when there is not one shred of evidence for such.
What is ethically wrong is sexism. If these were females as opposed to males, you would probably feel differently. Even more sad than that however is the fact that you overlook simple common sense. Young college-aged of the same profile and range of attractiveness ( well-built, this one was even a wrestler ), disappearing in the same city, often on certain dates, and it seems now only from a select few bars, and all the clues besides. You are the one who is presuming automatically what has happened to the victim, with your reference to M.A.D.D. Blame the victim all you want, but at least exercise enough of an open mind to see a pattern here, instead of chalking it all up to coincidence?
@ Anonymous
I'm not blaming the victim. Meyers' death seems to be a tragic accident. It's not right to jump to conclusions and throw him on the "smiley face killers victim bandwagon".
About your sexism remark, plese remember that women are far likelier to get rides. Also, men will brave nasty cold weather for a chance to get drunk and laid. As a guy I can tell you we are just that stupid. And specificly w/ regard to Meyers case, it was Valentine's Day and of course he wanted to be w/ his girlfriend, even though he was probably drunk, the temp outside was cold, and he wasn't dropped off at the correct location.
Unfortuantly accidents do sometimes happen. It's tragic, but it's just no murder.
I think that concerned mothers, friends, and family of these people should opt to educate young men and women of the dangers of alcohol, especially around areas near bodies of water that show a patter of tragic alcohol-related accidents. I mean, in some of these locations rivers, creeks, or lakes are located within short walking distance of these bars or even worse, located right behind them. This is trouble.
I would have to agree with BITM this time. It appears to be a tragic accident, there seems to be only one set of footprints, a security camera showed him by himself.
While I think many of these cases are suspicious, not all of them are and this one doesn't seem to be. There needs to be more education and awareness, don't leave anyone alone, don't go alone. I have seen many a drunk person that can hardly walk that could be confused and wander in the wrong direction. He may have thought he was in the parking lot.
Very, very sad.
This was sure a sad outcome but at least his family isn't left wondering where he is as many other families are doing right now with their missing family members.
Can't help but wonder if people came from out of town to attend the wedding reception and were staying at the Marriott Hotel. Maybe that's why he was in that area?
RIP Craig Meyers.
It stands to reason in many of these incidents, as has been stated many times before, that the men are drugged before leaving the bars, particularly since it seems only two or three bars in particular from whence most of the Lacrosse victims at least are disappearing. None of you seem to be taking into consideration that the man could have been drugged, in which case this would hardly be a "tragic accident." For all we know, he could have been drugged and the potential abductors either let him go or didn't have a chance to get to him. The autopsy reports will probably tell of an exceedingly lofty alcohol count and that will be that -- "just another drunk kid."
I most definitely agree however that people should have much greater awareness about the use of alcohol -- not only because accidents happen, but because drunk people are more easily preyed upon by stalkers and so forth. Men especially should be more aware, since so many of them don't believe they have much to fear from other people. This is one reason why it seems so important to let people know of what's going on with all of these young men.
This particular case, I admit, is different from most of them, but that doesn't automatically mean people should assume all of its components are accidental. Hasn't this assumption happened with almost every single one of these cases?
@ anonymous
I can also see your point. I do believe that there are cases where the men are drugged, rohypnol for one. Education should include the dangers of this, not just for the girls but for the boys as well.
I hope the police complete the investigation by finding out how much he drank at the reception, what time he went to each bar, what was the name of each bar (to perhaps tie into other cases), why was he going in that direction and so on.
If I were his parent, friend, family, I would want to make very certain that what happened was an accident and not something else.
Gee, maybe BoyintheMachine is right. These are all drunken accidents. We should all stop reading and commenting on this site.
BoyintheMachine, thank you for setting us straight. You are truly the smartest, most authoritative voice on this subject. I kneel before thee.
*sarcasm*
Craig did not seem to be adequately dresses to be walking in WI in the winter. Dress slacks and shirt, leather jacket. It was probably 15 to 20 degrees out. I am afraid some of these young men underestimate the effect alcohol has on the body in the cold. Imagine trying to climb out of an ice cold river when you are already chilled to the bone. But young men get a few drinks in them and think they are invincible.
I am very sorry for Craig Meyers and his family. He was so young.
You've probably heard by now that this case did, indeed, end tragically.
I think this was not an accident.
There are several common features with the other deaths, such as inadequate clothing, confusion
without somnolence blamed on etoh..
and of course the location.
What was he doing at the Marriot?
Does anyone know?
It is very strange the pattern that's emerging. Whether they are investigating and just aren't telling everyone about a serial killer, is the law enforcement at least encouraging a buddy system for the safety of students?
@ Al
No, this case here seems to be a tragic accident.
@ Laurie
There was only one set of footprints.
There is an article in today's LaCrosse Tribune in which the author states that he hopes that the "fearmongers" will realize this is just another tragic accident and put the whole "serial-killer" notion to rest and let the family mourn their loss. So, before I make this post, my sympathies to the family of Craig Meyer. I hope they can someday find peace in their hearts.
That said, if this young man was allegedly so intoxicated that he became disoriented, tumbled down an embankment behind the Marriott, and then walked out on the ice - then why are his alleged "footprints" in such a straight line? I don't necessarily buy theories that someone "carried the body across the ice then backed out in their own footprints." But, I also don't buy that someone drunk, disoriented, and probably hypothermic that had just rolled down a snowy embankment would then walk in a perfectly straight line across the ice to open water.
Just sayin'...
I feel so sorry for the girlfriend and I hope she doesn't blame herself for the rest of her life. To think that she will always have this negative experience associated with Valentine's Day is horrible.
I hope her friends and family are there to comfort her, and of course I feel for the parents, friends and family of the deceased.
"There is an article in today's LaCrosse Tribune in which the author states that he hopes that the "fearmongers" will realize this is just another tragic accident and put the whole "serial-killer" notion to rest and let the family mourn their loss."
I completely agree. I believe fearmongers do more damage to grieving friends and family by taking advantage of their emotional state and attempting to convince them that this and similar tragic accidents are a part of a conspiracy.
I am from La Crosse. After reading these posts, I am of the conclusion no one else who has commented has. Craig was dropped off 2 blocks from another university in town and 6-8 blocks from the downtown bar area. The river is just another couple of blocks from there. The marriott is on the very south end of the bar area but really only a couple blocks away. All very much within walking range and not uncommon. Most people here when going downtown will not carry a coat due to the lack of coat checks and smoke smell. Just one more thing to worry about. Also, most students will catch a "safe bus" back to the campus. So again, not uncommon to see someone walking downtown w/o a coat.
The river watch group, doesn't patrol as far south as the Marriott. The Riverside Park ends about 2 blocks north and so does the Riverwalk Sidewalk. The embankment area is behind the Mariott and another business. Not easily accessible.
I am like many here, that can't believe the accidental theory. We are frustrated at the ease of dismissal by the police at these cases. My friend was a victim in 1998 and there were many of us out that night. He just "disappeared".
Its weird that only young, athletic white boys during the school months are "falling" in the river. No girls, no older men, no boys of ethnicity, no one during the summer.
There is something to be said about alcohol awareness and education. But to chalk everyone of these cases to "too much" seems to easy.
News story:
Chris Hardie: Is photographic evidence enough to silence the fearmongers?
http://tinyurl.com/yj4hmu8
"For the sake of the Meyers family - and the families of the eight other young men who have drowned the past 13 years - stop this nonsense about a serial killer. There is no evidence to support it."
Please stop. I know believers think they are doing something to help but they are actually hurting the families. The real danger is alcohol and everybody is ignoring the obvious in favor of unproven conspiracy theories.
If you actually care, then start petitioning local city governments in areas where these accidents are common. Something needs to be done, be it education campaigns to improvements of the land and of the restrictions of the waterfronts. Theories and speculation about unknown killers preying on youth do not address the growing alcohol problem.
And just for the record, I believe some of these deaths MIGHT be murders, however it's clear when people throw every single missing person case into the mix that it's a big sign this thing has grown out of control. The serial killer(s) theory is like Frankenstein's monster at this time, on the rampage, and with people forgetting there is no solid evidence for it. If you are confused, just remember that possibility doesn't equal reality. Sure it's possible, but we can't say it's a reality at this point.
"For the sake of the Meyers family - and the families of the eight other young men who have drowned the past 13 years - stop this nonsense about a serial killer. There is no evidence to support it."
Joshua Guimonds family certainly want answers, hey dont want silence.
@ Boy in the Machine, who states :
"If you are confused, just remember that possibility doesn't equal reality. Sure it's possible, but we can't say it's a reality at this point."
You do not know possibility from reality at this point. You do realize this is an open blog? We read what you say ( which is quite a bit ) and your opinions ( which tend to be quite strong ) so I humbly ask that you let other people have their say -- we all don't have to believe what you believe.
Some Suggestions To Combat The Growing Probelem Of Alcohol-Related Deaths
1.) Petition to change the bar closing time from 2am to 12 midnight.
2.) Petition to have access to waterfronts restricted within a certain distance of bars.
3.) Reinforce a no tolerance policy on public drunkeness.
4.) Petition to have tax-payer money fund watches similar to the current river front watches, save for more man-power and equipment. In the link I posted in a previous comment, Operation Riverwatch has saved 50 people from entering the water. That's 50 more cases that likely would have been profiled on this site and which many might have attributed to the work of a serial killer.
5.) Petiiton to have a greater police presence around bar districts (places were multiple bars are centered and which people travel by foot to reach them.)
6.) Petition for commercials, billboards and advertisements warning of the dangers of alcohol-related accidental drownings, especially in the areas where these deaths are common, such as in LaCrosse.
7.) The creation of a M.A.D.D. type organization geared to the stopping of alcohol-related accidents. I'm sure most of the students feel it's perfectly fine to get trashed becasue they aren't driving. Well, the records show that even drunk pedestrians are in danger.
8.) Petition for the inclusion of school curiculum educating students on the dangers of alcohol and alocohol-related deaths. If such programs are already in place, move to strengthen them, specifically addressing the dangers posed by public intoxication in winter weather, alone, and near bodies of water. Also should be included on scenarios by which might be able to survive if they find themself in just such a predicament.
These are just a few suggestion and I wanted to post them to show the communites where this is a problem that steps can be taken but that it will take people who are willing to fight for them.
Some of those definitely sound good ( such as greater police presence near bars ), others may be infringing on constitutional rights and seem rather futile. Since deeming these deaths to be in any way suspicious seems automatically to make you a "fearmonger" I guess we should go to any lengths to change the world, as long as we're not suggesting a serial killer might be at large?
I have to agree with BITM on this. Perhaps the deaths that are suspicious, the killer is trying to copycat these types of accidents since they seem to be so common. Like I said, I am going to tell my boys about this again and again and again, I would never want to go through the pain that these families have to go through from something that could have been prevented.
Autopsy results, per today's LaCross Tribune:
"Craig J. Meyers died of cold water drowning with acute alcohol intoxication and hypothermia as contributing factors, authorities said. Final toxicology results are expected within one week. There are no signs of trauma to the body.
A blood-alcohol content level was not immediately released."
@ Annika
Here's the link:
Autopsy finds Craig Meyers drowned
http://tinyurl.com/yl5su5b
The Meyers family believes the untimely death of Craig was a tragic accident, blaming it on the cold.
""All the weaving he did going downtown and stuff, it just kind of showed he wasn't sure where he was, so we really feel the cold had a big play in it, he just wasn't himself, didn't know where he was," said Ken Meyers, Craig's father."
Meyers Family Speaks About Tragedy at the River
http://tinyurl.com/yfumwcl
La Crosse drowning brings up familiar questions
http://tinyurl.com/yfyz64o
Craig J. Meyers' body pulled from Mississippi River in La Crosse; serial drowning?
http://tinyurl.com/ydr852d
The Dan Zamlan case took LE 10 months before it was closed. I don't believe you can draw conclusions from a single photograph with footsteps in the snow. There are many possible scenarios. To name just a few... Were the footprints there before that night? Was the water open in that area previously, or did it open up? Was there an abduction, and escape? Were there threats with a weapon? There are 3 recent cases (Jan 2010) with the young adult male still missing. Superior WI, Lakeville MN, and Ames Iowa. It seems so eerie that this happens over and over and over again... many times in the *same* areas/campuses. There are a lot of schools out there with students drinking where this is not happening...and most of those schools are not near an interstate.
@ Gahnny
"Were the footprints there before that night? Was the water open in that area previously, or did it open up?"
The footprints lead out, onto the river and there are no returning footprints. How did Craig get into the river near the location of the footprints if they were not his? I'm not sure what scenario you are suggesting.
@ Monique777
I've been told that on other forums catered to the smk theory, that the belief is that the killer carried the unconscious body of Creaig Meyers out onto the ice, disposed of him in the water, then walked backward in his own footprints so as to cover-up the crime.
Even if we assume this was possible, how did the killer avoid falling in the river himself?
Just passing on what some people believe...
@ Monique777
Sorry, meant to add,
Yes, they believe that a man carried another grown man down to the icy river and managed to toss his body into the river w/out actually falling into the river himself, as well as managed to walk backwards so as to leave only one set of footprints. Doesn't sound likely to me, but some find sense in it.
two previous sfk victims traced to st johns abbey
RITUALS CONFIRMED
and Now confirmed Occult Rituals at st johns Abbey where Murdered Chris Jenkins and Missing Joshua Guimond were traced to
A inner group of monks at the abbey that have been rumored to be involved in several different lets say odd rituals that i am still trying to get (Further information on)
But i can factualy confirm that we have proof of rituals abuse and ceremonys taking place on the campus in one of the building that have since been redone.
From Carrie Henson Victims advocate.
working with the Guimond family.
http://www.perjuries.com/bbs/index.php/topic,4413.0.html?PHPSESSID=cdad6024287008bb68ffbeb59ae6bd30
INVESTIGATION UPDATES
In every year from 2000 to 2007 there has been
rapes reported in the annual report, but for
the life of me, I sure don't find then in the
Logs.
Why have been hiding the rapes all these
years.
You
have committed FRAUD, not once but twice.
I asked before if you were licensed, and you
have not responded, I would like a reply to
that question, whats your license number.I
would also like to know the Schools ID number.
I expect an answer asap.
Have a nice day
Bob Guimond
http://www.findjoshua.com/view.asp
PLEASE HELP FIND JOSHUA GUIMOND AND STOP ALL THESE MURDERS AND DISAPEARENCES
complaint form the online complaint form to inspector general
its here
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/hotline.html
You dont even have to state your name you can remain jan doe ect but i urge you to state your feeling on the issue of continued st johns university abuses and unethical horrible behavior
I have seen the documents first hand from this case the school has prevented the truth from coming out and continue to get in the way of finding joshua and it wont be tollerated we are growing daily in support and in the publics involvement
Take back the power of the people we can solve this missing case think of jaycee duggard case if only this person or that person would have done this well lets not make that mistake again it is time to make a statement on this complaint form on form there are several places to check off i offer this thought check off all of them and under the area that states specific complaints state to many to list
All case details can be obtained through either of us at anytime good job all of you that are so kind to be our advocates and supporters i believe some of you have done more for the case than the sheriff good job next week we will file another formal complaint with law enforcement watchdogs good job
please contact carrie henson case advocate davgra72153@earthlink.net or bob at bobg1123@yahoo.com
http://www.findjoshua.com
This is so tragic, as much as this one is leaning towards a tragic accident, I am not ruling anything out. The fact that 8 very similar men have disappeared under very similar circumstances, in a close vicinity is very suspicious.
My one problem with a lot of these that are being automatically blamed an accident, is that UW Madiosn has been one of the top party schools in America for a long time, and a recent as 2007 there were ranked number 1 in alcohol consumption, so why does a school with a huge student population and tons of alcohol consumption not seeing their students go missing and drown, there campus alone is surrounded by significant bodies of water, it just seems very odd to me. They also have a school wide Halloween party which takes up blocks of streets, crowded with tens of thousands of people, and no one ever accidentally stumbles into the nearby water.
It's apparent to me that multiple clues in these cases have a Native American element. I will discuss four that seem salient to me. First, lacrosse comes up in multiple cases. Lacrosse is a Native American team sport. Several of the deaths have occurred in La Crosse, WI. Chris Jenkins, whose death in 2002 was reclassified as a homicide, was a lacrosse player.
Second, "sinsiniwa" (a Native American word meaning rattlesnake or home of the young eagle) was reportedly written in grafitti near the location of a drowning victim found in Michigan. Shortly thereafter, Matt Kuzinski's body was found on Sinsinawa Ave. in Iowa.
Third, as reported on Geraldo's show on Fox News on 2/15/2010, private detective Kevin Gannon discovered that in several of the La Crosse, WI cases, evidence from victims was located near a Native
American statue ("Hiawatha" statue in Riverside Park).
Fourth, it seems as though most of the drownings have occurred in WI, IL, IA, OH, MI, and MN...all states with Indian names (see http://www.firstpeople.us/glossary/States-With-Indian-Names.html). WI's Indian meaning is "Gathering of the Waters"; IL means "Men or Great Men"; IA means -oddly enough- "Drowsy People", OH means "Beautiful Valley", MI means "Great Water", and MN means "Sky Tinted Water". Connecting the meanings of these states yield the commonalities of drowsy (or perhaps inebriated) great (athletic, popular, intelligent) beautiful (attractive) men and water. The dominant consistency in the drowning cases is the demographic of victims and the fact that bodies of water are where victims are found. Inebriated, athletic, popular, intelligent, attractive men is exactly the group that appear to be targeted.
I'm not sure the significance of the Native American link in these cases, but it's undeniable.
I pray for all of the victims in these cases and their families and I hope that this mystery is solved a.s.a.p. I knew Luke Homan and I know how devastated his family is that he was taken away from them.
@ Eddie
You have to be very careful with that line of questioning. For one, this land belonged to Native Americans and the Native American influence is profound all across the nation and not just located in the upper mid-west. I live in Oklahoma (Land of the red people), with a large Native American population and influence on place-names, yet none of these drownings here.
People have been demonizing Native Americans since the times of the Mayflower. In fact, the demonization of Native Americans continues to occur, with some "Satanic-Conspiracy" nuts claiming that Native American spiritual practices is devil-worship, even going as far as warning people not to setp foot on Native American land.
In the latest Coast 2 Coast episode on the Smiley Face Killers Theory, Kristi Piehl seems to dismiss the grafitti. This is a good move, one that was recommended to her a long time ago.
I'm open-minded to the serial killer(s) theory, however I think the main problem is the proximity of the waterfront to bars.
I read a comment from a local La Crosse native on a news article on Craig Meyers death and the man dismisses any notion of a serial killer. According to the man, the problem lies with the bars being built too close to the water.
Also, w/ regard to the 8 men who drowned in La Crosse, I believe offhand that in one of the cases there were witnesses who reported seeing the man on the bridge as if he was about to jump and kill himself. Yet for some reason his case is included as if it matches the others when it doesn't.
At this time, what I would like someone with the expertise to do, is to find out if there were major constructions of the bar district in 1997, if in that time period more bars were being opened in very close proximity to bars. I would like to know if that was the case as that may prove to be the explanation right there. Supposedly these drowning started in 1997, so if major bar construction near the waterway also occured in this time then this might be the answer.
First of all, none of these bars are new since 1997. They have been in existence (with some name changes) for many decades. I can't even tell you how many bars are situated on 3rd Street alone, but it's a high number. La Crosse used to be in the Guinness Book of World Records as the city with the highest per capita number of bars in the world. So this is not a new phenomenon. If you haven't been to La Crosse, you have no idea how the city is built. The Water front is 4 blocks from the above mentioned street. It one college campus is less than a mile away. The other two are probably about 1.5 miles away at most. Again, nothing new about that either. What IS new is that this has only been happening since the late 1990's. Only large business building have been constructed near the river. What many people who have lived in this town for decades want to know is, why now? Nothing has changed with proximity to the water, the number of bars haven't changed, this has been known as a party town since the 60's and 70's at least (with binge drinking being nothing new), yet only since 1997 have these young men been finding their way to the water. As a city, we are stumped.
LCPD Chief Kondracki: There is no serial killer!
http://tinyurl.com/ylpxbsv
"To rumor mongers: "Please show some respect for the Meyer family and the men and women who police our streets. Wild accusations of a rogue cop, long range hypnotists, and seductive female or national smiley face gang are simply beyond the pale and demeaning to all."
Kondracki goes on to emphasize that River Watch volunteers have stopped 50 people from entering the water.
@ InLax
Even if the serial killer(s) theory was proven tomorrow it would still sugest that La Crosse is a city with a major drinking problem. I've read accounts from natives who say just that and add that the city is in denial.
NEW INFORMATION: Chief speaks out against serial killer theory (with video)
http://tinyurl.com/ygca3sf
"But, Deputy Chief Eric Larsen with the Eau Claire Police Department says "there is no serial killer. There is no evidence of any serial killer."
Larsen says when two retired detectives from New York unveiled their "smiley face" serial killer theory two years ago, they did so for their own gain at the expense of the victims' families. The detectives said a gang of serial killers was responsible for 40 river deaths around the country, including seven in La Crosse and three in Eau Claire.
"It's just sad that these guys are running around feeding off the grief of people who have lost their sons; using that to get work."
Larsen says the whole notion of a serial killer takes away from the real issue communities and universities need to look at which is binge drinking."
Larsen goes on to state that all of his calls to the 2 detectives have gone unanswered and that the detectives have so far refused to share the evidence they claim they have proving these deaths are the work of a network or nationwide group fo serial killers.
Boyinthemachine-
As a girl that has grown up in La Crosse and the U here, it is hard to explain to outside people that dont get the fact of how ludacris is would be to walk in the direction of the river rather than home. The police like to say that RiverWatch has saved closed to 50 people from entering the water. This is false. I have done RiverWatch quite a few times. Theyve never actually seen anyone near the rivers edge, instead, the 50 people that were stopped were just caught in the park afterhours and the majority are neither college students or drunk. My parents also grew up here and frequently went downtown, however nobody was found drowned in the river until 1997? Too many things dont add up. For Craig to grow up here and know about the rivers history, he would not end up down there. Look at the footprints in the snow....they dont really look like they belong to a drunk person and they havent even proved that they are his....
@ manifestivemind
The temperature that night was 1 degree (as in above zero). Craig was not dressed for the weather.
Craig's preliminary blood alcohol results was .28 (3x the legal limit)
Craig's family attributes the tragic accident to the cold temperatures.
The conspiratorial frame of mind or outlook is the hardest to shake or break free from, mainly because it's not centered around logic but rather a preconcieved notion, as in "confirmation bias".
If every single disappearance or drowning death is considered to be part of the conspiracy then it's a big clue that the conspiracy is false. Ever hear of the term "unfalsifiable"? In science, theories that are unfalsifiable are rejected offhand. Basically unfalsifiable means the inability to ever be wrong. Take for existance the believers in the serieal killers theory who claim that the killer "walked backwards in his footsteps to give the impression of just one set of prints". -Unfalsifiable. The footprints are proof that this was a tragic accident, but believers can't accept it because their theory is unfalsifiable. The serial killers theory can't ever be wrong, and hence it must be rejected.
I really hate to be over critical. I'm really open-minded and am easy to get along with. So I apologize if I come across as being a cold jerk. It's just that these cases desperately need a *balance* to them.
I grew up in a riverside town and do not recall one single drowning that was not boat-related.
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2010/02/craig_j_meyers.php
Were those footprints identified as belonging to Craig or not?
@ Laurie
They probably will not be doing tests to determine if the footprints belong to Craig.
If I remember right, according to the CDC alcohol is a factor in like 43% of all adoloscent and adult men drowning deaths.
Possibly. However, the
BAC number is meaningless.
I saw a patient with an over .3
just a few weeks ago who was completely competent to the naked eye. No slurred voice or any difficulties whatsoever.
And you just can't have it both ways..either you are able to walk
3-6 blocks or even 2 miles and presumably alert enough to get out of a river, or not fall into it, OR you are not. No matter what your
BAC is, which says more about how much you just drank than it does about your capabilities at that level, you cannot be capable at one level and not at another.
Just commonsense....
By the way in the link I posted, the last comment claims that those footprints were not matched to Craig.
I thought I had read in other places that he had rolled down the bank into the water.
Amazing how much these stories vary when you try to follow them.
I think the problems are twofold, one is that most people are reporting a peak in these kinds of "accidental deaths" in a geographical region in the last 10 or so years. And secondly, these kids seem to consistently head in the wrong direction, get lost, think they are one place when they apparently were at another, etc.
So there is an element of confusion along with what I spoke about earlier, ie - if you are drunk but can still hike a considerable distance without falling or passing out, then I am more than willing to bet that hitting cold water would send an adrenaline rush capable of enabling
these YOUNG, ATHLETIC males to at least get out of the river sometimes. But none of them do.
So you see, the facts are exactly what don't make sense to me.
Have a nice day.
why didn't the detectives just do a simple caster of the foot prints on the rivers edge to match them to the shoes that this dude was wearing.would have helped alot. these are routine practices. what is going on.
@ Laurie
Do you discount that accidents happen, that people can and do fall into bodies of water and drown, especially when intoxicated and in extremely cold weather or temps? Just wondering.
@ joe
Please realize this isn't a murder investigation. At this time there is no evidence of foul play and even the parents accept that it is a tragic accident.
Also, the footprints were in snow. I'm not sure how one would make casts of footprints in snow.
I agree there is a chance alot of these might be accidents in La Crosse but nearby Madison is the highest college in the country for alcohol consumption, they have at least 3 major bodies of water surrounding their campus and resident halls and have a fairly large student body. Why this same coincidences aren't happening there make it suspicious to me. They seemed to be focused in one very similar area in La Crosse.
Also why aren't we seeing this same chain of events happen to women. They like to go out and have a good time just as much as men do, and they don't seem to be disappearing and found in nearby bodies of water. I feel if these were all accidents the victims would vary in age, sex, height, weight and appearance.
@ Jimmy
The problem is that behavior and gender are linked. For example, males take more risks than females.
Obvious: Females get rides more often
According ot the CDC, males are 4 times as likely than females to die from drowning. Also, almost half of all adolescent and adult drownings are alcohol-related.
Water-Related Injuries: Fact Sheet
http://tinyurl.com/dks9gc
Has anyone discussed the linkage of stimulants, such as Red Bull, with excessive consumption of alcohol? This seems to be the greatest difference between the current generation and those of the past. In other words, with the advent of caffeine enhancements to counteract the depressive effect of ETOH, it seems we are experiencing a higher frequency of individuals who in the past would have been 'too drunk' to move, much less walk over a mile, up and down curbs, cross busy streets, be coherent enough to know the difference between walking on the sidewalk and not in the street, yet be too confused to know the difference between staying on solid land and walking onto the frozen ice.
I have never tried the combination of Red Bull and ETOH and am interested in hearing from anyone who has, and what the result on one's state of lucidity and wakefulness is. I must also add that I am not aware of Red Bull being used in this or any other case, however, after spending many years as a healthcare provider in ER and ICU, it seems rare that an individual with a .28 could walk that far. Please let me know your thoughts.
Our community is devastated by the string of tragedies and our hearts go out to the families of all the unfortunate young men who have been lost.
@ Swiss_Guggs
That's an interesting take. From the info I remember from school, the belief that stimulants like coffee sobers people up is wrong. There's nothing that can be ingested or done to speed up the function of the liver.
Is red bull and the like that different from caffeine that it would produce different results? I dunno, but I have my doubts.
.28 is a lot. However, it may not be enough to completely incompacitate an individual, which makes the situation even worse. If a person is able to stumble around yet not understand where they are out nor understand they are wandering toward an icy river, then it may have been better that they ingested alcohol to the point of complete collapse rather than attempt to walk anywhere.
Then again, even a small ammount of alcohol dulls the senses and makes accidents more likely.
@ BIM
"Ever hear of the term "unfalsifiable"? In science, theories that are unfalsifiable are rejected offhand."
Ahhh.... just to mention... there are always exceptions to every 'rule'. String Theory has been one of the most researched topics in physics for the last 30 years, garnering gazillions in federal research grants at the top US research institutions across the country. It is also an "unfalsifiable" theory, in that it has never made a prediction.
@ Gahnny
"Ahhh.... just to mention... there are always exceptions to every 'rule'. String Theory has been one of the most researched topics in physics for the last 30 years, garnering gazillions in federal research grants at the top US research institutions across the country. It is also an "unfalsifiable" theory, in that it has never made a prediction."
Very True. I love *M-Theory*. However, if it doesn't make predictions and can be verified soon that it will eventually get the boot.
I for one hold to the belief that it is imposible for us to know everything, much akin to the modern notion of Quantum Mechanics. I think the belief that we can know everything pertains to the false understanding of the universe as maintained by minds such as Einstein and the like, who performed mental gymnastics to make the universe equal their preconcieved notions of what it should be.
This brings us to the sad fact that with these deaths we have to be able to except that we may never have the answers we desperately seek.
i also agree that this one could be a accident.the reasons are the video and the thin ice.i know some of the drownings are accidents and some are suicides.
Two sisters from La Crosse are leading a community-wide event this Sunday to bring people closer together.
They want to the community to come up with ways to prevent future drownings, like the one that happened to their brother 24 years ago.
"As we come together Sunday, we want to link arms and show our support and solidarity to this community," said Lisa Schwartzhoff.
Lisa and her sister Paula Homp say 21-year-old Craig Meyers’ recent drowning in the Mississippi River hits close to home for them.
That’s because in 1986, their 17-year-old brother Terry drowned the in River after drinking at a party.
Paula says when another drowning occurs, their thoughts go back to their brother.
"We hate to see another family go through that and if you can find a way to prevent that from happening, you’ll do everything in your power to do it," Homp said.
So Paula and Lisa will lead a human chain along the Mississippi River in Riverside Park this Sunday.
"As we stand together, the strength in numbers shows power and support and that we can make a change in this city," Lisa said.
The sisters want the community to find a way to stop the shocking number of young people who have gotten intoxicated and drowned in the river.
Meyers’ death last week is the ninth time in 13 years that an intoxicated college-aged man has drowned in the Mississippi.
"I was on a lot of Facebook groups and reading everybody’s ideas and blaming everybody, blaming somebody or something on the recent drownings and listening to everybody’s ideas," Paula said.
So she thought about creating an event where the community can come together and share ideas on what to do about the problem, instead of pointing fingers.
"We’re hoping to hear all the ideas on that day," Paula explained. "If they don’t want to voice their ideas, there’s gonna be an opportunity to write them down.”
Paula and Lisa have been working with La Crosse County Tavern League President Mike Brown to help plan Sunday’s event.
"This is about coming to a positive solution and people who think they can make a difference and step up," Brown said.
"I just think it’s very important as a community as a whole to come together and show their support for this cause and stop it from happening again," said Lisa.
A cause Lisa and Paula hope will bring the community closer together and make a difference in the future.
Paula and Lisa say they hope to create a 15-member committee for A Safer La Crosse. The committee will present those ideas to the City of La Crosse to work to come up with a solution to the problem.
If you’d like to join the human chain, or voice your ideas on how to solve the problem, you can meet Paula and Lisa at Riverside park near the Visitor Center at noon on Sunday. They hope thousands of people attend the event
http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/85436357.html
http://wcco.com/local/drowned.student.wisconsin.2.1530687.html
LA CROSSE, Wis. (WCCO) ―
Final autopsy results on a college student who drowned in La Crosse, Wis. show a lower blood alcohol than preliminary results indicated.
Medical examiner John Steers says final toxicology tests show Craig Meyers had a blood alcohol content of 0.19, whereas preliminary tests indicated a BAC of 0.28.
Meyers drowned in the Mississippi River on Feb. 14. Steers said the cause of death was cold water drowning with acute alcohol intoxication and hypothermia.
No other drugs were found in Meyers' system. No trauma was found on Meyers' body.
Meyers was a student at Western Tech.
Nine intoxicated college-age men have drowned in area rivers since 1997.
Following up the points made about the native american links....
Wasn't it around 1998-1999ish when the Hiawatha/Hwy 55 project was being completed, with considerable opposition from native americans, as the project was designed to pave over their native lands and cut down their sacred trees? (here's one link) http://twincities.indymedia.org/2008/aug/hwy-55-hiawatha-reroute-anniversary
This could be a leap...but...as the sacred land was destroyed without really giving the native americans any real opportunity to contest the decision, one could see how they might be just a bit ticked off. Plus, there was a huge community effort aimed at preventing the construction that included more than just native americans.
Again-- could be a stretch, but.....for the sake of argument...thoughts?
Doesn't anyone remember the case of Joe Clark, in Baraboo? One of his victims drowned in the Wisconsin River. The actual cause of death was drowning, the manner of death was ruled accidental... but was later found to be MURDER after another victim survived his encounter with Joe Clark. This case was riddled with incompetence. There were a series of blind mistakes by medical examiners and law enforcement because of stereotyped thinking about drowning deaths. Everyone was just willing to believe that the first (known) victim just somehow ended up in the river - from his own house - and drowned. He was examined and found to have drowned, and that was that. No more questions. Call this an accident and don't reason any further with ourselves about it. He had to be examined AGAIN, then it was found that his legs had been shattered before he was in the river. My point is: it happened once before. In Wisconsin. Because of the CAUSE of death, the blinders went on. Because it was a drowning, it had to be an accident. In the minds of otherwise intelligent people who should have realized more.
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